• Part V • Understanding Depression, Hope Through Treatment (The Mary Hanson Show)


[opening theme music] ♪ ♪ >>HELLO, AND WELCOME TO OUR SERIES ON DEPRESSION. THIS IS THE LAST IN A FIVE-PART SERIES THAT WE’VE DONE. I’M MARY HANSON. I’M A SOCIAL WORKER AND THE
HOST OF A LONG-RUNNING CABLE AND PUBLIC TV SHOW THAT FOCUSES ON SOCIAL AND HEALTH ISSUES. DR. JAMES JORDAN, A PSYCHIATRIST, IS MY COHOST, AND JIM, YOU HAVE BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE MINNESOTA PSYCHIATRIC SOCIETY QUITE RECENTLY. YOU ARE ALSO THE PAST MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE HAMM
PSYCHIATRIC CLINIC IN ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA.>>WE’RE HERE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT A IMPORTANT PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM: DEPRESSION. VERY, VERY TREATABLE, VERY COMMON, AND, IN THE SERIES THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT WITH YOU, IT MANIFESTS ITSELF ACROSS THE LIFE CYCLE. WE WANT YOU TO WATCH CAREFULLY, LISTEN, AND TAKE AWAY FROM THIS THINGS THAT WILL HELP YOU AND MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY, PEOPLE IN THE WORKPLACE, UNDERSTAND AND DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM WHICH WILL HELP EVERYONE IN OUR SOCIETY HAVE A HEALTHIER LIFE.>>ONE OUT OF FIVE OF US DEALS WITH MAJOR DEPRESSION IN HIS OR HER LIFETIME. OUR GUEST IN THE NEXT SEGMENT IS A FORMER CEO OF A MAJOR
BANK, AND HE’S GOING TO TALK WITH DR. JORDAN ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE WITH SEVERE DEPRESSION. WE HOPE YOU CAN JOIN US FOR THAT, AND THEN JIM AND I WILL
BE BACK AND TALK MORE ABOUT SOME
OF THE DETAILS REGARDING TREATMENT AND STIGMA AND HOPE.>>I’M DR. JIM JORDAN. I’M A PSYCHIATRIST. MY GUEST TODAY IS PETER GILLETTE. WE’RE HERE TALKING ABOUT DEPRESSION, UNDERSTANDING DEPRESSION. PETER IS RETIRED. HE WAS THE CEO OF NORWEST BANK. PETER, WOULD YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH DEPRESSION WHEN IT STARTED; WHAT IT WAS LIKE; HOW IT CAME INTO YOUR LIFE?>>WELL, IT STARTED BASICALLY
AT THE END OF ONE OF MY SEVERAL CAREERS, ACTUALLY. A SITUATION OCCURRED WHERE THE TRUST COMPANY THAT I WAS
WORKING WITH AT THE TIME WAS SOLD, AND THERE WAS A WAITING PERIOD OF ABOUT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE THE CLOSING TOOK PLACE, AND DURING THAT FOUR MONTHS, I HAD VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO DO. I WOULD GO TO THE OFFICE IN THE MORNING. IT WOULD HAVE FOUR WALLS AROUND ME, PRACTICALLY, AND I STARTED JUST FEELING TERRIBLE. IT WAS NOT A VERY THERE WAS JUST NOTHING FOR ME TO DO, SO I GOT DEPRESSED.>>IS THIS CALLED “BEING ISOLATED AT THE TOP”?>>I THINK IT MAY WELL BE CATEGORIZED AS BEING ISOLATED AT THE TOP. ABSOLUTELY. BUT IT WAS A VERY FOREBODING, HEAVY KIND OF EXPERIENCE, AND I WAS, IN A WAY, KIND OF TRAPPED BECAUSE I KNEW THAT NOTHING COULD TAKE PLACE AS FAR AS THE COMPANY WAS CONCERNED UNTIL THE DUE DATE, AS IT WERE, OCCURRED, AND THAT WAS ABOUT A FOUR-MONTH PERIOD.>>SO YOU WERE STUCK HERE IN THIS PERIOD OF TIME, AND YOU SAID A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE FEELING. WAS IT A PHYSICAL FEELING? HOW DID IT MANIFEST ITSELF IN YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE?>>WELL, IT’S PHYSICAL BECAUSE YOU CAN FEEL IT. I MEAN, THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. YOU CAN FEEL THAT YOU’RE NOT YOURSELF. IN THE MORNING, I DIDN’T LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING UP IN THE MORNING, GETTING OUT OF BED. THERE WAS NO REAL ENTHUSIASM OR BRIGHTNESS, AS IT WERE, IN
MY LIFE, AND I KNEW THAT I WAS NOT THE WAY I SHOULD BE.>>OTHER SYMPTOMS? WHAT WERE THE OTHER SYMPTOMS?>>WELL, I LOST SOME WEIGHT IN THE PROCESS. I OBSESSED. I STARTED REALLY THINKING ABOUT THISTHE WAY I FELT MORE OFTEN THAN ONE NORMALLY DOES. THE FEELING OF BEING DEPRESSED AND THINKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME>>SORT OF BROODING. THINKING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER.>>AND CIRCLING IN YOUR MIND. YOUR MIND KEEPS GOING AROUND AND ROUND AND ROUND IN CIRCLES, AS IT WERE, ABOUT THE TOPIC.>>UH-HUH. WHAT ABOUT THINGS YOU TOOK PLEASURE IN, FOOD AND THINGS YOU ENJOYED? DID THAT CHANGE IN SOME WAY WHEN YOU STARTED FEELING THIS?>>LIFE JUST DOESN’T HAVE ITS SAME SPARK ANYMORE, WHETHER IT’S FOOD OR WHETHER IT’S FRIENDS. WHETHER IT’S SOCIAL COMPANY OR WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU JUST DON’T FEEL THAT YOU’RE UP TO THE UP TO PAR, AS IT WERE. UP TO THE TASK AT HAND.>>MM-HMM. AND YOU’RE USUAL PATTERN OF COPING IS WHAT? HOW>>DOING.>>YOU’RE A DOER?>>I’M A DOER. I’M A DOER, AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO IN AND OF ITSELF WAS THE BASIC PROBLEM THAT I HAD.>>SAY MORE ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, WHAT ARE THE ROOTS OF BECOMING A DOER IN YOUR LIFE?>>WHEN I GREW UP BACK IN THE LATE ’30s AND EARLY ’40s, I WAS PRETTY MUCH LEFT ALONE TO MYSELF. MY MOTHER WORKED. MY FATHER WORKED. HE WAS AN ALCOHOLIC AND
PROBABLY DEPRESSED HIMSELF. SO I HAD TO MAKE MY OWN WAY, AS IT WERE, AT A VERY YOUNG AGE MUCH YOUNGER THAN WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE TODAY AND IN THE PROCESS, WHAT I LEARNED IS THAT IF I COULD DO AND ACCOMPLISH, THAT I WOULD BE ACCEPTED AND APPROVED, AND SO THAT BECAME KIND OF THE MODUS OPERANDI FOR MY LIFE, WHICH IT WORKED. THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT, BUT HAVING NOTHING TO DO DIDN’T WORK.>>I SEE. AND IT’S CONCEIVABLE THAT YOUR FATHER WAS DEPRESSED, RIGHT?>>QUITE. AS I LOOK BACK ON HIS LIFE, I’M PRETTY SURE HE WAS DEPRESSED, SO THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A GENE OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT IN THE FAMILY THAT KIND OF GOT TRANSMITTED DOWN TO ME.>>SO WE CAN SAY A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK IN A WAY, RIGHT?>>A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK IN THAT INSTANCE.>>BUT THAT SELF-RELIANCE. I MEAN, THAT WAS THE WAY YOUNG MEN WERE RAISED DURING THOSE YEARS, RIGHT?>>WITHOUT QUESTION. SELF-RELIANCE.>>KEEP THINGS INSIDE OF YOURSELF.>>KEEP IT INSIDE YOURSELF. DON’T LOOK OUT. DON’T UNZIP. YOU KNOW, KEEP IT INTO YOURSELF IS RIGHT.>>MM-HMM. WHAT ABOUT BEING VULNERABLE OR TALKING ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OF BEING AFRAID OR OTHER EMOTIONS THAT YOU HAD?>>WELL, THAT IN PARTICULAR AT THE TIME THAT I GOT DEPRESSED, I JUST DIDN’T FEEL COMFORTABLE TELLING EVERYBODY
OR TELLING THE PEOPLE THAT WORKED AROUND ME, “I AM DEPRESSED; PLEASE LOOK AT ME; PLEASE BE AWARE” TYPE OF THING. YOU DON’T DO THAT. YOU PUT THE STIFF UPPER LIP, AND YOU GO ON AND>>PUT ON A GOOD FACE.>>GOOD FACE.>>RIGHT. YEAH. NOW, THERE’S A POINT HERE WHERE YOU’RE GONNA GET SOME HELP. SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP. TELL ME ABOUT THAT. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?>>WELL, I LEARNED OR I KNEW OF A WOMAN WHO HAD HAD DEPRESSION, SO I BASICALLY WENT TO HER AND SAID, “WHO CAN YOU REFER ME
TO?” AND I WENT TO THAT
PSYCHIATRIST, AND HE USED A COMBINATION OF TALK THERAPY, BUT IT WAS A BOOTSTRAP TYPE OF THERAPY MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND GAVE ME SOME MODEST MEDICATIONS THAT ULTIMATELY DIDN’T REALLY WORK.>>MORE OF THE SAME? STIFF UPPER LIP? PULL YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS?>>EXACTLY.>>NOT WORKING WASN’T WORKING FOR YOU. NOW, WORKING WITH THIS PARTICULAR PSYCHIATRIST>>RIGHT.>>AND SO DID YOU GET ANOTHER OPINION? CONSULTATION?>>WELL, IT WAS THERE WAS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND. I HAD TO FIND SOMEBODY ELSE, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER REFERRAL THAT WAS MADE, AND IT TURNED
OUT TO BE THE BEST REFERRAL THAT I COULD THINK OF. A WOMAN PSYCHOLOGIST WHO WORKED TOGETHER WITH A PSYCHIATRIST
WHO WAS A PHARMACOLOGIST AND KNEW THE MEDICAL THE MEDS, AS WE REFER THEM TO. AND SO BETWEEN MY TALK THERAPY WITH HER AND THE MEDS THAT HE PUT ME ON, I FOUND HELP.>>PUT YOU ON MEDICATION.>>PUT ME ON MEDICATION. THESE ARE ANTIDEPRESSANTS THAT ARE MORE COMMON TODAY THAN, CERTAINLY, THEY WERE 25, 30 YEARS AGO, AND THERE’S A WHOLE ARRAY OF MEDICATIONS THAT CAN BE USED IN THAT CATEGORY NOW.>>SOUNDS LIKE YOU TRIED MORE THAN ONE.>>I DID. THE FIRST TIME, I DON’T THINK THE FIRST ONES WORKED, SO THEY CHANGED IT AND PUT ME ON A DIFFERENT ONE, AND IT TOOK
TIME. YOU GOT TO BE PATIENT BECAUSE THESE MEDS DON’T AUTOMATICALLY, LIKE AN ASPIRIN, WORK
OVERNIGHT, BUT IT TOOK TIME, AND THOSE
WERE TRYING TIMES, NEEDLESS TO SAY, WAITING FOR THE OUTCOMES.>>I CAN IMAGINE. BUT YOUR THERAPIST YOUR PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGIST, YOUR PSYCHIATRIST WERE HELPING YOU TRY TO FIND THE RIGHT MEDICATION?>>WITHOUT QUESTION. THEY WERE THE RIGHT
COMBINATION, AND I FEEL VERY GRATEFUL TO THEM BOTH.>>SIDE EFFECTS FROM THE MEDICATION?>>NONE. I DIDN’T HAVE ANY SIDE EFFECTS THAT I>>JUST NOT EFFECTIVE.>>THEY JUST WEREN’T EFFECTIVE, SO THAT’S WHY THEY HAD TO TRY A DIFFERENT ONE.>>BUT AFTER TRIALS SEVERAL TRIALS YOU DID FIND ONE. YOU STARTED FEELING BETTER, AND WHAT DID YOU NOTICE WAS CHANGING?>>WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE SYMPTOMS OF THE DEPRESSION WERE BEING TREATED BY THE
MEDICATION, AND WHEN YOU CAN GET THE SYMPTOMS WORKED OUT, IT
PROVIDES A MUCH MORE FERTILE GROUND FOR THE TALK THERAPY THAT I WAS WORKING WITH WITH PSYCHOLOGISTS TO BE EFFECTIVE.>>UH-HUH. NOW, IF WE JUST PAUSE THERE FOR A MINUTE, THAT REALLY DOES MAKE A LOT OF SENSE, DOESN’T IT? I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO FEEL REASONABLE TO UNDERTAKE PSYCHOTHERAPY.>>I WOULD THINK SO. I CAN ONLY SPEAK FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, AND IT WORKED FOR ME. I GATHER IT’S WORKED FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHERS AS WELL.>>SO IT MAY TAKE WEEKS OR
MAYBE EVEN A FEW MONTHS TO START FEELING BETTER. YOUR THERAPIST IS SUPPORTING YOU, BUT THEN YOU START WORKING IN THE THERAPY. WHAT DID YOU BEGIN TO
UNDERSTAND OR LEARN FROM THE PERIOD OF
TIME IN THERAPY?>>WELL, I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY I LEARNED WHAT
MAKES PETER RUN, AS IT WERE.>>I SEE.>>’CAUSE WE WENT BACK INTO MY YOUTH, MY CHILDHOOD, TO FIGURE OUTFIND OUT THAT I WAS IN FACT A DOER, SOMEONE WHO SOUGHT ACTIVITY AND TO BE PARTICIPATING IN HIS LIFE MY LIFE. SO IT WAS A VERY HELPFUL
PROCESS EVEN ON TOP OF THE DEPRESSION, BUT I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT MYSELF, WHICH I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ANYBODY. TO KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT I’M ABOUT.>>AND EMOTIONALLY, WHAT DID
YOU LEARN ABOUT THE PAST AND WHAT YOU COULD CHANGE TO HELP YOURSELF?>>WELL, I THINK THROUGH SELF-KNOWLEDGE, YOU GET A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF DEALING WITH EMOTIONS THAN YOU OTHERWISE WOULD DO, AND SOMETIMES, SELF-KNOWLEDGE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT PAINFUL, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS A REVELATION. IT BRINGS UP KNOWLEDGE ABOUT YOURSELF THAT HELPS YOU DEAL WITH YOUR EMOTIONS UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE THE EMOTIONS THAT YOU DO.>>MM-HMM. NOW, I’M AWARE THAT YOU’RE IN A GROUP WHERE YOU MEET WITH OTHER MEN AND TALK ABOUT, JUST, DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND SO FORTH. TELL ME SOMETHING ABOUT THAT WHAT THAT IS ABOUT; WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU; HOW IT’S HELPFUL.>>WELL, THIS IS A GROUP THAT WAS FORMED ABOUT 25, 26 YEARS AGO. I’VE ONLY BEEN INVOLVED MAYBE 10 YEARS, BUT THERE ARE EIGHT OF US. WE MEET AT A GIVEN TIME ONCE A WEEK ON A WEEKDAY MORNING. WE COME TOGETHER. THERE MAY BE A THEME FOR THAT MEETING THAT ONE OF THE PRESENTERS PRESENTS, BUT WE LEARN TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER WHAT’S GOING ON IN OUR LIVES, WHAT MAY BE HAPPENING IN OUR EMOTIONAL LIVES, AND IN THAT SENSE, IT’S A VERY OPEN, TRUSTING, CARING GROUP OF MEN WHO COME TOGETHER. WE WEREN’T NECESSARILY INTIMATE FRIENDS BEFORE THIS, BUT WE ARE NOW.>>MM-HMM, SO YOU DEVELOPED THAT TRUST, THAT CONFIDENCE IN EACH OTHER.>>THE CONFIDENCE AND TRUST IN EACH OTHER SO THAT WE DO SHARE.>>UH-HUH. NOW, I WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE WORKPLACE. YOU WERE RUNNING AN ORGANIZATION. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE WORKPLACE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE THERE THAT MAY HAVE LOTS OF STRESS, MAY HAVE SYMPTOMS DEVELOPING OF ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND FOR THEM IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE AND HOW TO HELP IN THE WORKPLACE?>>WELL, DEPRESSION DOESN’T
JUST START AT THE TOP AND WORK DOWN WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. PEOPLE ARE DEPRESSED FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS AND CAUSATIONS, AND IN A LARGE ORGANIZATION, THERE ARE GONNA
BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DEPRESSED. THE REAL QUESTION IS, CAN THAT DEPRESSED EMPLOU FIND TRUST AND CONFIDENCE IN HIS BOSS TO
BE ABLE TO SHARE HIS OR HER CONDITION WITH THE BOSS? IF THAT CAN BE DONE AND THAT TYPE OF TRUST RELATIONSHIP CAN BE GENERATED BY THE BOSS BY THE SENIOR PERSON IT’LL MAKE IT A LOT EASIER FOR THAT EMPLOU TO BASICALLY CONTINUE ON IN THE WORKPLACE WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE TIME
OFF, AND TO GET THE KIND OF
TREATMENT AND HELP THAT I DID THAT WAS HELPFUL TO ME.>>MM-HMM.>>SO TRUST IS CRITICAL, I THINK.>>THE TRUST THAT WOULD BE ESTABLISHED BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS IN THE WORK PLACE THE BOSS, THE EMPLOUS…>>EXACTLY.>>THE STAFF.>>YEP, JUST EXACTLY.>>PETER, I WANT TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING AND
TALKING TO US ABOUT THIS EXPERIENCE IN YOUR LIFE. I CAN SEE THAT YOU’RE DOING FEELING A LOT BETTER AT THIS POINT.>>BY ALL MEANS.>>IT’S BEEN VERY GRACIOUS OF YOU TO SHARE WITH US, AND THANK YOU.>>THANKS, JIM, FOR LETTING ME BE A PART OF IT.>>MARY HANSON AND I WILL BE BACK TO TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING DEPRESSION AND HOPE THROUGH TREATMENT. THANK YOU.>>PETER IS CERTAINLY HELPING TO DESTIGMATIZE DEPRESSION AND MENTAL ILLNESS, ISN’T HE, BY SPEAKING OUT SO OPENLY?>>ABSOLUTELY. YES.>>OUR OTHER GUESTS IN THIS SERIES, LIKEWISE, WERE SO HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT, AND YET, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MAYBE 10 YEARS AGO, DR. JORDAN, MAYBE 15 FOR SURE PEOPLE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THIS OPEN.>>YES, IT WAS, UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE COULD NOT EVEN BRING UP OR MENTION THE FACT THAT ONE HAD THIS COMMON HEALTH PROBLEM AND
SOUGHT HELPEVEN GOT HELP AND GOT BETTERIS STILL SOMETHING THAT THEY WANTED TO HIDE OR KEEP FROM THE PUBLIC. WE’VE MADE PROGRESS. WE HAVE MADE GENUINE PROGRESS. PART OF THE MEDIA HELPING US WITH THE MESSAGE OF WHAT THIS CONDITION IS. THAT IT’S VERY, VERY TREATABLE. WHERE TO GO FOR HELP. PEOPLE LIKE PETER COMING FORWARD. THIS IS A VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN. VERY ARTICULATE. ABLE TO TALK ABOUT HIS CONDITION, WHAT HE’S DONE. HAVE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY UNDERSTAND. LEADERS. PEOPLE IN THE WORKPLACE SEE
THAT THEY CAN HELP THEIR EMPLOUS. HUMAN RESOURCES NEED TO BE IN PLACE SO THAT THEY CAN IDENTIFY THOSE THAT NEED HELP AT WORK. PEOPLE IN SCHOOLS. TRAINED OBSERVERSTEACHERS KEEPING AN EYE OUT ON CHILDREN FOR SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF DEPRESSION. AND THEN SEEING THAT PARENTS
ARE ABLE TO GET THE SUPPORT AND
HELP THEY NEED TO GET TO SOME APPROPRIATE EVALUATION. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DESTIGMATIZING FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT AND I THINK I’VE LEARNED THIS OVER MANY YEARS IS THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO DO JUSTICE TO AN EVALUATION OF
WHAT YOU’RE DEALING WITH. IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, THIS IS PART OF LIFE; PART OF BEING HUMAN; PART OF THE BRAIN AND THE MIND AND HOW IT MANIFESTS ITSELF EMOTIONS, FEELINGS. IN THIS CASE, A CLINICAL SITUATION THAT DEVELOPS INTO DEPRESSION. VERY, VERY TREATABLE. THERE ARE SOME THINGS TO BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THE RISK OF SUICIDE. SOMETIMES IT’S SEEN WITH OTHER ILLNESSES. PEOPLE ARE NOT IMPROVING, NOT GETTING BETTER, PARTICULARLY IN THE ELDERLY. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE WITH HEART DISEASE, AND YOU THINK, “GEE, THEY SHOULD BE IMPROVING.” THEY’RE NOT MAKING THE KIND OF PROGRESS YOU’D LIKE TO SEE THEM MAKE, IT’S CONCEIVABLE AND PROBABLE THAT THERE MAY BE A DEPRESSIVE COMPONENT THAT NEEDS TREATMENT TOO. THIS KIND OF AWARENESS AND THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF
IT ARE SO IMPORTANT. THE LIVES THAT CAN BE SAVED. THE MONEY THAT CAN BE SAVED. THE COST OF NOT DIAGNOSING NOT EVALUATING THIS CONDITION IS SO, SO SERIOUS. I AM LOOKING FORWARD AND MY COLLEAGUES ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO MUCH MORE HEADWAY IN TERMS OF DESTIGMATIZING THIS SO WE
CAN TREAT IT LIKE ANY OTHER HEALTH PROBLEM: DIABETES, HEART DISEASE, INFECTIOUS DISEASE LOOK AT THAT PROGRESS THAT WE’VE MADE, AND WE CAN MAKE IT IN THIS AREA TOO.>>I THINK WHEN PEOPLE SPEAK OUT, THAT IS A GREAT BOON TO MAKING IT LESS SCARY AND ALSO LESS STIGMATIZED. WHEN WE THINK ABOUT PETER AS REPRESENTING THE OVER-60 CROWD, AS YOU SAID, ELDERLY MALES ARE AT HIGH RISK FOR DEPRESSION AND ALSO SUICIDE. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER THINGS
ABOUT BEING IN THE OVER-60 CROWD THAT IS IMPORTANT WHEN WE TALK WHAT OTHER THINGS ARE IMPORTANT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DEPRESSION?>>WELL, LET’S JUST TALK ABOUT MEN FOR A MINUTE AND OVER 60, BUT JUST MEN GENERALLY. THE NOTION IN OUR CULTURE OF SELF-RELIANCE DON’T ACKNOWLEDGE
VULNERABILITY, OR WHEN YOU START TO SEE THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE’S SOMETHING THAT YOU NEED TO HIDE RATHER THAN TALK OPENLY ABOUT IT, SO IN THE CASE AS YOU MENTION, IN PETER’S CASE BUT THAT’S THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THERAPY IS THAT YOU CAN TALK. IT WAS CALLED, AND TO SOME EXTENT STILL IS, THE TALKING CURE. I MEAN, TALK THERAPY MEANS THAT YOU GIVE WORDS TO YOUR EXPERIENCE INSTEAD OF KEEPING THEM INSIDE OF YOU. YOU SHARE THEM WITH OTHER PEOPLE. WE ARE A COMMUNITY A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE THAT CAN LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND AND BE SENSITIVE AND EMPATHIC WITH EACH OTHER. THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT HELP PEOPLE THRIVE REGARDLESS OF WHAT AGE THEY
ARE. WE ALL NEED THAT KIND OF AFFECTION AND ATTENTION, AND TO THAT EXTENT, THIS IS
GOOD PRACTICES. GOOD PRACTICES FOR A FAMILY, GOOD PRACTICES IN THE
WORKPLACE, AND CERTAINLY THE INGREDIENTS OF GOOD THERAPY.>>I DO SOME WORK WITH THE ELDERLY MYSELF AS A SOCIAL WORK CONSULTANT, AS YOU KNOW, AND THERE ARE SOME REAL INTERESTING PARALLELS BETWEEN ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION, BETWEEN DEMENTIA AND
DEPRESSION. AND SO, AS YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE, A THOROUGH PHYSICAL IS EVEN MAYBE MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS AGE THAN ANY OF THE OTHER AGES.>>ABSOLUTELY. WE ALWAYS WANT TO BE SURE THAT SOMEONE’S HEALTH, GENERAL HEALTH, IS IN A GOOD PLACE, SO A GOOD, THOROUGH PHYSICAL EXAMINATION. AND AS YOU AGE, OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE CONSIDERATIONS IN TERMS OF YOUR HEALTH THAT NEED TO BE EVALUATED, AND THERE ARE CORRELATES, AS YOU SAID, WITH CERTAIN CONDITIONS THAT PHYSICIANS ABSOLUTELY LOOK OUT FOR IN TERMS OF HOW PREVALENT DEPRESSION CAN BE WITH, LET’S SAY, HEART DISEASE OR CANCER OR CERTAIN KINDS OF CHRONIC ILLNESS.>>POST-STROKE PEOPLE>>EXACTLY.>>I THINK IT’S VERY COMMON TO HAVE SOME DEPRESSION. PETER SPOKE A LOT ABOUT A GROUP THAT HE’S IN THAT GIVES HIM SUPPORT, AND YOU TALKED LAST WEEK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THERAPY, WHETHER IT’S GROUP OR INDIVIDUAL. WHAT ARE SOME NEW THINGS ON THE HORIZON IN TERMS OF
TREATING DEPRESSION? I KNOW THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE BEING LOOKED AT THAT PROBABLY THE GENERAL PUBLIC HASN’T HEARD MUCH ABOUT YET.>>WELL, THIS IS I GUESS WE’D CALL IT APPLIED RESEARCH OR TRANSITION
RESEARCH. TRANSITION FROM LABORATORY TO PRACTICE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS VERY, VERY INTERESTING AND I THINK, OFTEN, SOME REAL HOPE IS AN
AREA CALLED PHARMACOGENOMICS. AS YOU KNOW AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW THAT FINDING THE RIGHT DRUG, THE RIGHT DOSE, FOR THIS PATIENT, INDIVIDUALIZING THE CARE, IS A VERY, VERY CHALLENGING ISSUE.>>I THINK EACH OF THE GUESTS SPOKE TO THAT POINT.>>ABSOLUTELY. THE TIME THAT IT TAKES TO FIND THE RIGHT DOSE, TO FIND THE RIGHT DRUG, AND THE PAIN OR DIFFICULTIES WITH SIDE EFFECTS AND MANAGING THAT. PHARMACOGENOMICS OFFERS US THE POSSIBILITY BY A SIMPLE TEST OF A CERTAIN ASPECT OF THE GENOME THAT HAS TO DO WITH
METABOLIZING THESE DRUGS WE CAN INDIVIDUALIZE THE CURE. PICK THE RIGHT DRUG, PICK THE RIGHT DOSE, AND ALSO MANAGE THAT IN A WAY THAT IT’S MORE EFFECTIVE WHEN WE DECIDE WE’RE GONNA USE MEDICATION FOR THOSE MODERATE AND SEVERE CASES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WHERE PHARMACOLOGY IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. YOU WANT TO TRY TO GET IT
RIGHT. INDIVIDUALIZE THAT CURE. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE HOPEFUL THINGS THAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR
IN TERMS OF THE LABORATORY AND THE PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS OF THIS IN CLINICAL PRACTICE, SO IT’S SOMETHING TO LOOK FOR IN THE FUTURE AS THESE TECHNIQUES ARE REFINED AND WE GET MORE EXPERIENCE WITH IT.>>SO IN A NUTSHELL, JIM, DO THEY TAKE A DNA SAMPLE AND THEN TEST THAT IN A LABORATORY WITH THE VARIOUS MEDS THAT MIGHT BE THE MED TO PUT A PERSON ON?>>YES, IT GIVES YOU SORT OF A PROTOTYPE. AN OUTLINE OF WHAT ARE THE MOST LIKELY MEDICATIONS TO BE EFFECTIVE THE ANTIDEPRESSANT CLASS AND ALSO TELLS YOU WHAT MAY BE THE PROPER DOSE IN TERMS OF IF SOMEONE IS A FAST
METABOLIZER OF, LET’S SAY, AN ANTIDEPRESSANT, THIS IS SOMEONE THAT YOU MAY HAVE TO GIVE A HIGHER DOSE TO. IF THEY’RE A SLOW METABOLIZER ON THE BASIS OF THIS SECTION OF THE GENOME THIS P450 ASPECT OF THE GENOME THEN YOU MAY HAVE TO GIVE LESS, BECAUSE THEY’RE GONNA
ACCUMULATE MORE MEDICATION AND THEY’RE GONNA GET MORE SIDE EFFECTS. SO THOSE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF DIMENSIONS OF THIS, BUT IT’S A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT
TECHNICAL AND HOPEFUL THING FOR THE FUTURE, BUT IT ISN’T QUITE READY FOR GENERAL APPLICATION YET BECAUSE OF THE REFINEMENT OF THE TECHNIQUES AND GETTING MORE EXPOSURE, MORE PRACTICE, MORE EXPERIENCE WITH IT.>>WELL, WITH 20% OF THE POPULATION NEEDING, AT SOME POINT, TO BE IN TREATMENT, HOPEFULLY, FOR DEPRESSION, THIS IS HOPEFUL. WE’VE COVERED A LOT OF
IMPORTANT ISSUES, BUT WE’VE HAD TO COVER THEM FAST, JIM, IN THIS SERIES, AND I KNOW IT’S BEEN
FRUSTRATING FOR YOU IN THAT SENSE. IF YOU COULD SUM UP AND WE JUST HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT BUT IF YOU COULD SUM UP SOME OF THE KEY THINGS YOU HOPE THAT
YOU AS VIEWERS WOULD TAKE AWAY,
WHAT WOULD BE THE TOP THREE OR FOUR?>>I WOULD SAY FIRST OF ALL, WHEN AND IF YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A POSSIBILITY FOR YOU, FOR A MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY GET TO A CONSULTATION AND AN EVALUATION. EVALUATION IS CRITICAL, AND TREATMENT IS INFORMED BY ASSESSMENT AND EVALUATION. THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH BRINGING THIS UP TO YOUR
DOCTOR. BEING INFORMED. WE’RE HOPING THAT OUR SERIES WILL HELP PEOPLE HAVE IDEAS AND QUESTIONS THAT THEY CAN TALK TO THEIR DOCTOR ABOUT. “IS THIS POSSIBLY RELATED TO DEPRESSION IN TERMS OF HOW I’M FEELING?” AND SO FORTH. SO GET INTO THAT EVALUATION AND TAKE IT VERY, VERY SERIOUSLY. LOOK FOR IT IN OTHERS AT THE WORKPLACE, IN YOUR FAMILY. PAY ATTENTION. BE AWARE OF THESE CONSIDERATIONS. IT’S JUST PART OF YOUR HEALTH. PRACTICAL THINGS TO DO: EXERCISE. WE’VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT I WANT TO BRING IT UP
AGAIN. THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PART OF LIFE, GENERAL HEALTH, AND HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BEING A FUNCTIONAL ANTIDEPRESSANT. YOU CAN FEEL MUCH BETTER IF YOU GET REGULAR EXERCISE, SO THAT’S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. THE IDEA OF TAKING SERIOUSLY WHEN SOMEONE’S TALKING ABOUT
THE PAIN OR THE PESSIMISM OR
DESPAIR OR THAT THEY MIGHT THINK THAT LIFE IS NOT WORTH LIVING. THIS IS THE TIME TO STEP IN AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT AND
HAVE THAT PERSON HAVE A
CONSULTATION. GET SOME HELP. CHILD, ADULT, SENIOR LOOK INTO IT. TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. THERE’S A RISK THERE, AND THEN THERE ARE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE OF A RISK: IF SOMEONE’S USING DRUGS OR
THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF PREVIOUS DEPRESSION AND THEY’RE IMPULSIVE.>>VERY KEY. VERY IMPORTANT POINTS. THANK YOU FOR SUMMING IT UP SO WELL. WELL, WE WANT TO SUM UP OUR THANKS TO YOU FOR BEING WITH US FOR THIS SERIES. WE HAVE FELT THAT IT WAS AN IMPORTANT SERIES TO DO TO GIVE YOU THE INSIGHT AND THE INFORMATION THAT DEPRESSION IS TREATABLE. THERE IS HOPE. WE’RE GOING TO PUT SOME
RESOURCE INFORMATION ON AT THE END OF THE SHOW. WE HOPE YOU CAN CHECK THAT OUT, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US. Captioning by CaptionMax www.captionmax.com

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