Gary Gulman: The Great Depresh | A Conversation About Depression (Exclusive Full Clip) | HBO

(APPLAUSE) JUDD APATOW:Okay, we’re going
to just have a little, uh,
a little chat about depression
right now. (CHEERING) Let’s bring out the great
Maria Bamford and Patton Oswalt -everybody!
-(CHEERING) This is the talk part
of our evening. We thought that, uh,
since we were here together, uh, one nice way
to end the night would be to talk about
our experiences with depression. Uh, and other issues.
And what, uh, helped us get through.
We could be informative, as well as entertaining
right now. -MARIA BAMFORD: Oh!
-Who wants information? (LAUGHTER) You guys want information? So, where should we start,
Gary? I guess I had a question
for you. -Sure.
-Which is, uh, what’s it feel like
to have such a positive moment? Well… (EXHALES) It’s uncomfortable, I must say. And… I w–
I can’t wait till it’s over. Because of the– the relief. Because I get so anxious. I was talking with Maria
earlier, we just can’t wait -till it’s bedtime.
-There’s snacks at home. -Yeah.
-And you fall into a heap. -Yeah.
-Anybody enjoy–? -I like it when things are done.
-Yeah. There’s no more letting
anybody down. But, I’d–
I can recognize now, objectively, that this
is a special night that I’ll never forget.
I mean, these are two people
I’ve admired since I first saw them perform.
And that they came to be a part of this is such
an honor. -Yeah.
-(APPLAUSE) -No, honestly.
-Thank you. Seeing you for the first time
tonight, I’ve never seen you. I thought your stuff
was amazing. (LAUGHTER) -Thank you.
-And, uh– And Judd says he shot, uh,
some footage of you -that HBO’s gonna show?
-Yes. PATTON OSWALT: That’s amazing. -I mean, good, keep going, dude.
-(LAUGHTER) Keep going up and doing this,
it’s… -It feels like it’s happening.
-(LAUGHTER) It is a– An interesting part
of, uh, the mental state that when things are going
well, -it’s very uncomfortable.
-Yes. It’s almost…
There’s a comfort in it -going a little shitty.
-Right. -Not total shitty…
-Right. But, uh, a little shitty.
Because I’m editing a movie right now,
and when I’m working, all I think the whole time
is, “I hope this doesn’t lead -to a terrible humiliation.”
-Oh! And that’s the fuel
that gets me going every day. And then, at some point,
if it all works out, I go, “Oh, my God,
I wasn’t humiliated!” (LAUGHTER) And then I start something else
and start the process all over again. So you’re saying
that you’re, in a weird way, you’re safe while
you’re doing it, because it hasn’t gotten out
there yet, and there’s a part of you
that’s like, “Can’t I just stay in this zone,
where I’m always making a movie, but I don’t have to
actually put it out for anyone to look at?” -APATOW: Yeah, absolutely.
-You just come here
and eat craft service… -APATOW: Yes.
-…and film things, and then go home,
this is a nice little life right now. “Oh, wait,
people want to watch this? -Oh, no.” Like…
-Yes. Well it’s the escape
from the– the moment of judgement. Like– And then if the judgment
is good, I don’t enjoy it that much.
A little bit, but then I instantly go,
“But what will the next one -be like?”
-Right. And uh, I assume that even
in this moment -there’s a little of that.
-Yeah, social media, I really can’t,
I can’t do it at all. You know, I mean, I… Yeah,
I just can’t read anything. I’m the opposite,
and it’s something -I’ve been talking…
-(LAUGHTER) …to my therapist about,
in a very aggressive way. -(LAUGHTER)
-I need to… No, like, it’s something
that I need to really– I’m working with him on it.
He’s… If there’s anything about me
online, I will go– I will not stop
reading the comments until I find the negative one,
and go, “See?” -(LAUGHTER)
-There you go. And then we–
Then I’m weirdly comforted. -Wow.
-It’s really weird. Like, I will seek out
the most negative thing about me,
I don’t know what it is. APATOW: You know what I do
in that moment? I go through
that person’s tweets… -(OSWALT LAUGHS)
-…and I will go back years, -and years–
-(LAUGHTER) And there’ll be something
pleasant on it, right? -OSWALT: Yeah.
-So they’re like, “Judd Apatow is shit.” And then I will find something
from three years ago, like a picture of them
with their new puppy, -and I’ll just retweet it.
-(LAUGHTER) I am watching you.
I know everything. -Wow.
-(LAUGHTER) Oh, that’s brilliant. But I– I am actively trying to
stop… Like, it’s almost like a mental
exercise every morning, to not–
My wife is like, “Check Twitter in the morning,
check Twitter in the evening, and then actually do work.” ‘Cause Twitter has been
a real problem for me, um, because it’s an endorphin–
It’s a little endorphin pill. -Yes.
-Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Have you ever had a fear
of losing your job because of a
mental health issue? ‘Cause I think that’s
one thing that’s been, like, terrifying to me,
is going, “Oh, I– I can’t do my job
anymore, because of medication
side effects or– whatever it is.”
Uh, have you– I mean obviously I know
you spoke about that -in your special.
-GARY GULMAN: Yes. -Yeah.
-And I got a job as a– a camp counselor,
a day-camp counselor, two summers ago,
because I needed to transition out of stand-up,
to become a teacher, I would go back to school,
I had the whole plan… -BAMFORD: Yeah, yeah.
-…in my head, because I couldn’t do stand-up
anymore. -BAMFORD: Yes.
-But I decided to go into this thing, teaching,
which is much more stressful -than stand-up.
-BAMFORD: Oh, my God, teaching. That’s like a mad, drunk crowd
for nine hours. -Yes!
-It’s terrible. Yes. (LAUGHTER) And they’re trying to hug you. -They’re all heckling.
-Teaching–Yeah, always, -constantly.
-Yes. Oh no, I tried teaching too,
and I– I, um, when I got out of
the hospital, I tried doing reception work,
I thought, well, maybe I could
keep this together, you know, kinda, but, um, yeah–
Just to have something to do– ‘Cause show business
can be very understanding about mental health,
but at the same time, it can also be like,
“Well now… You can still produce,
can’t you?” -(LAUGHTER)
-Like, uh, yeah, uh… It’s,
“You’re good now, right?” -(LAUGHTER)
-I mean, I did– I did a show about mental health
and they– I had a hard time… I had to fight every day
to get a 12-hour turnaround for sleep time. And, uh– ‘Cause they said–
I was like, “No, I will, I will go mental.
This whole– This whole show -will happen in real time…”
-(LAUGHTER) Uh, it was so bizarre,
you know, well anyway– Yeah, it’s really interesting
to have to, you know, ask for things even when
it was openly an issue. You know, I said,
“Oh, yeah, no it’s real.” Like, I’m not joking around. Well you said something
that really made me sit up, when– during your, uh, set,
where you talked about you– “I spend all day, um,
getting way too emotionally -angry about the pettiest shit.”
-Oh, yes. “But then that at night
is what pays my bills for me.” -Right, oh, I know.
-And it reminded me– There was a thing that
Alan Moore, who’s an amazing writer, said,
that– -Comic, uh, graphic novel.
-Um, comic book writer, yeah,-Watchmen, From Hell.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah, -and a great memoir he wrote.
-And a great, amazing, yeah– Well he said something
so fascinating where he said, “The, um, the percentage
of, uh, um, mental health problems for writers
is particularly high because part of their job,
part of the way that they put food on the table
is, they have to risk losing
their identity… -Wow.
-…in order to get
into the heads of the characters
that they’re writing about, fiction writers.”
And it is a– It’s a job risk,
it’s an on-job risk to do that over, and over,
and over again. And, I– It made me think that
in a way, comedians, consciously,
maybe not as deep as a novelist would, but,
on a day-to-day basis, they re-wire themselves
to overreact to things because that’s where
the laughs come from. -Yes.
-And that’s where the success -comes from.
-Yes. And you’re constantly competing
with those two things. Are you really that mad
at Chipotle? (LAUGHTER) I’m outraged at the people
in front of me. -Yeah.
-The corn thing is egregious. -Well, yeah.
-APATOW: Here’s the thing… (LAUGHTER) Here’s where I disagree,
I feel like when you’re at Chipotle,
it’s hard for them to know the angle
of your finger. (LAUGHTER) And so, like,
you’re pointing to corn, but it could, from their angle,
look like it’s the lettuce. -But… But if you say corn…
-(LAUGHTER) …they’ll start scooping. Yeah, yeah. I hadn’t thought about
that part of the– -Well–
-Yeah. But I have that problem too
where I get angry if I’m in a line
or I’m in traffic, and then I try to engage
in empathy, but then that’s a risk. -Yes.
-Because empathy can be the enemy.
If you have empathy for absolutely everything,
then your identity just disintegrates.
You have to find a healthy amount of,
“What the fuck -is this guy’s problem?”
-(LAUGHTER) You know, like,
yes, you’re supposed to go, “Maybe they’re having
a horrible day, maybe they just got really
bad news.” Yeah, but there comes a point
where you’re like, “I need to get my fucking food.” Like, I–
But, finding that line -is really hard, man.
-I’ve– I’ve tried to do that with hecklers
to like deal with it in sort of, like a mindfulness,
meditation. Like, “Well let’s have
some curiosity -about how…
-(LAUGHTER) …we’re trying to make America
great again.” Um, you know, but then–
Yeah, there’s a certain point -where it stops working…
-Yeah, yeah, yeah. …where you gotta go,
“Shut the fuck up, like, or get out of the show.” I had an interesting heckler
while I was doingThe Great Depreshin Delaware.
A man sitting right where you are,
front and center. -Interesting.
-And– -Oh, my God, it’s him!
-No. (LAUGHTER) This is– This is a friendly
face. This– This man stood up,
said, “What is this, therapy?” And I said, “Well it’s called
The Great Depresh.
-I thought you would have…”
-(LAUGHTER) And he says,
“You got nothing lighter?” (LAUGHTER) And I said, “No,
I’ve been workshopping this for nine months at this point.”
And I’m shooting a special in less than a month,
I really need to hone this. And he said, “You suck!”
And he walked out. But the– But the rest
of the audience, they stayed, so that was good.
But– Now, Judd– Judd,
what led you do to that to him? -(LAUGHTER)
-OSWALT: That’s weird,
that you would– -He was pushing me.
-Without criticism, -you don’t know what’s unfair.
-It’s called producing. -He’s producing, yeah.
-(LAUGHTER) I’ve– Someone’s gotta be real
with you. (LAUGHTER) Well, you have had,
Maria has had, you have the weirdest hecklers
I’ve ever heard of and seen, where they don’t heckle you,
they get angry at the rest of the crowd.
I remember, so vividly, we were in Irving Plaza
onComedians of Comedy,you came out,
you were annihilating, and this guy
started yelling at the crowd because you could tell
that he didn’t understand, he didn’t get what you
were doing, and he almost– In a weird way,
not that I supported him yelling, but I’m like, I–
Again, the empathy, like– I bet he maybe thinks,
“Am I going insane?” (LAUGHTER) He was this big, dumb,
kind of jock guy, probably a pleasant guy,
and everyone around him in Irving Plaza is
losing their minds laughing, and he’s like,
“I don’t know what’s–” Like, you could tell
that he had a very different– And he started freaking out.
Like, “What is going on?” And they had to like
push him out, like, amazing. -(LAUGHTER)
-Well it’s pre-internet
comedy too, where people are so much
less likely to go into something, you know,
’cause it’s so easy to Google– I mean that’s what’s
so surprising, where it’s like,
“Oh, man, it’s on you.” If you came in here, uh,
just coming in for some ‘comedy…’ -Yeah.
-…that’s not my fault.” (LAUGHTER) Oh. Oh, boy. -APATOW: But, Maria–
-I don’t just go see “music.” Like, I don’t–
Yeah, there’s– -Movies.
-Yeah, movies. Like you read about it first,
where you go, “Oh, I don’t like Reggae.”
You know, like? (LAUGHTER) “Maybe I won’t go to
the festival.” But it was almost like
that guy was the germ of the– the nervous breakdown
we’re all living through right now, where I think that Trump in a weird way
is a symptom, not to make it political, but,
there’s a group of people in this country
who feels like they can’t articulate it,
but we’re being left behind. Culturally, demographically,
and so they clung onto this weird…
Again, it’s almost like a– Trump isn’t a person,
he’s a tantrum. And from– Judging from,
I mean, I’m only judging it from the–
the kind of mental tantrums and breakdowns I’ve had
about shit in the past. I weirdly know where
these people are coming from in a very sick fucked-up way. A friend of mine,
I was having lunch with– -Uh, you know Dana Gould.
-Oh, of course, brilliant. And he was saying, he goes,
“Even if Trump loses, do you realize this country
is gonna go through four years of PTSD?”
This country, it’s like– The mom is gonna finally
divorce the abusive, -alcoholic dad…
-Wow. …and we’re all gonna suddenly
become goth -and start overeating.
-(LAUGHTER) And just, like,
the whole country’s gonna -go nuts for a while.
-(LAUGHTER) It’s gonna be– It’s gonna be
just as ugly as when he was president, really. I mean, do you see any of that?
Like, when you’re looking at your–
your mental, whatever you’re struggling with
personally, and then do you sometimes
see it out in macro, cosmic form
in the world sometimes? Yes.
I mean for most of my life I was forcing myself
to be the aggressive… guy who plays contact sports
and everything like that… And I really just,
I just wanted to– to collage. (LAUGHTER) Like, I’ve– I’m a– I’m a staunch gun-control guy.
I– I’m for banning assault weapons and–
But my glue gun… -BAMFORD: Yes.
-From my cold, dead hands. -(LAUGHTER)
-I– If Michaels starts instituting
a five-day waiting period -to get a glue gun–
-(LAUGHTER) But it seems like part
of your struggle you talk about, is that you don’t feel
the way you look. Yes, yes.
I’m built like the Jewish Gaston -but inside–
-(LAUGHTER) I took–
I took the Disney Prince test, -and I’m a Belle, I’m a Belle.
-(LAUGHTER) I– I love to read,
and mental illness -runs in my family, my– Yeah.
-(LAUGHTER) I’m a– I’m a Belle. Well, and that’s–
I mean, that’s one thing I loved about stand-up
was that it’s kind of like
a macho thing, but with words. -Right.
-So you can kind of take control of something,
and then you’re amplified, you’re lit,
and everybody’s looking at– I mean I–
I always felt like I was a very shy person
who had a difficult time, uh, speaking, uh, extemporaneously,
or, like, jumping into conversations,
of course, not now… -(LAUGHTER)
-Uh, but, fully medicated. But, uh, but yeah,
so stand-up was this perfect, it’s like,
“Oh, I get to totally be myself and say exactly what
I want to say, even if nobody wants me to.” But we both read
How to Win Friends
-And Influence People…
-And Influence People.
…at a very young age. -Yeah, my dad.
-I took it out of the library -at like second grade.
-(LAUGHTER) And I just knew to say,
“Hi, Maria, -nice to meet you, Maria.”
-Yes. Say the person’s name
over and over again. You know, it’s been
so great– -Gary–
-(LAUGHTER) And when I–
When I see you, Gary, and I love what you do, Gary.
You know, I’m going to ask you
three questions… -(LAUGHTER)
-Um, do– do you like money? You get somebody saying
yes, yes, yes, and then, uh,
then they’ll be your friend. My dad sent me it
because I was depressed when I was a kid, so…
Uh, yeah, and, uh… Then I learned to, uh,
win friends. (LAUGHTER) But in a way, that is the thing
that made your whole life, is you became interested
in public speaking… -Right.
-…and the idea of confidence, and, so maybe everything
he says is right. -BAMFORD: Mm-hm.
-Dale Carnegie. -Yeah, it’s…
-Fake it. -It’s helpful, sure.
-Well, yes… The stuff that’s helpful
is helpful. -Yeah, yeah.
-Yeah. What’s the worst thing
Dale Carnegie said that’s just wrong? Oh, I’m sure
he was an awful person. -Right.
-I was the 1920s. It was also manipulative
and cynical. That– yeah. I knew–
I knew it was wrong, even if it did work. And I tried to do the things
when I went to college on the East Coast and people
were like… “Why the fuck you talking
like that?” (LAUGHTER) Like– nope, everyone–
nobody believed it. Midwest, people believed it. What was the main direction
of Dale Carnegie about how to speak? Uh, well, you only take
an interest in the other person. You don’t do a lot of speaking.
You ask them, “Oh, so, Judd, what do you
enjoy the most or what was the best thing
about your day?” Judd. I don’t know, but I like you
so much more right now. -Yeah, exactly.
-(LAUGHTER) It totally worked, even though
I knew you were faking it. No, it’s like– yeah– it’s genuine skills,
but then when it’s manipulative or it’s the only way you can
communicate with other people is through these structures,
and I– I still feel com– I love
structured communication. (LAUGHTER) I do. Who doesn’t love
a 12-step group? Oh, my God. Three minutes.
Cut. Cut. -That’s a take.
-(LAUGHTER) On to the next. (LAUGHTER CONTINUES) What has been
the most helpful idea in terms of just mental health?
Like, what’s the main things that you go back to
on a day-to-day basis to keep solid? Well, one thing– we talked
about this today was the idea that… when I was very young,
I was convinced that if I worked really hard
in school or in basketball, I would do
something great and then I would feel good
about myself. And then, we both read
Springsteen’s autobiography, in which he talks
about being depressed, and I think, well, nobody
worked harder and there are few
more successful and he was depressed
and couldn’t get out of bed. And he was–
And he was Springsteen. And then he went on–
he went on anti-depressants and he felt better so that– it’s– it’s genetic
and it’s chemical and… That should be
on every commercial -for anti-depressants.
-OSWALT: Yeah. -“Springsteen’s on ’em.”
-Prozac. “It’s more effective
than being Bruce Springsteen.” Yeah, exactly. (LAUGHTER) If I were Jeffrey Ross,
I’d bump your mic right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s trademarked.
That’s trademarked. “Side effects may include
being Bruce Springsteen.” (LAUGHTER) I read that autobiography, too,
and it really felt to me, -like, you know, ’cause he did
these epic four-hour shows.
-Yes. And it really became clear
when you read about it that he was just avoiding
having to be by himself. -He didn’t want to be alone
with his own thoughts.
-Yes. Yes. So if I’m in a–
The roar of a stadium -became his white noise machine.
-Wow. And then when he wasn’t touring
or doing an album, he would– wouldn’t he like obsessively
drive across country alone, be awake for days,
and then just park outside -of his old house and just stare
at it like…
-Yes. Oh my gosh. …clearly going through
really dark, weird stuff? -So, yeah, it was–
-Heartbreaking. Yeah, what made him
a great rockstar was him avoiding ever having
to face himself. In a weird way. -Whew.
-You know? But that gets back to that risk we were talking
about of trying to be a great writer,
be a great comedian, to be a great artist,
you sacrifice and you roll the dice
over and over again -with your mental health.
-Right. And you do you guys think–
has your work– I worry about this all the time
that my work has suffered from me not being able
to be as productive as I thought I once was.
I don’t know, I was manic, so it’s hard to say whether
I was truly being productive or I was just calling the pope
a lot. (LAUGHTER) “I have so many ideas, Pope!” (LAUGHTER) GULMAN: Oh, my gosh! OSWALT: Holy shit! That’s a common one,
calling the pope, though. I literally flashed to you,
like, that was the beginning of a Zoloft commercial
you were doing. Like, “I didn’t know if I was
being productive or just calling the pope a lot,
but you know what? Once I got on Zoloft…” Which–
Why the fuck was she calling– Just a throwaway line
in a drug ad. (LAUGHTER) I know those manic dep–
the ones for bipolar– And you’re literally like,
you’re taking cookies out of the oven
while you’re talking. Sorry. Those bipolar ads, like she’s
always so down. It’s like, “Why don’t they catch
the manic times where she’s like having
the time of the life?” -GULMAN: Head in her hands.
-Yeah, like, “Oh, my god, she’s sexting.
She’s like…” She’s not always making pots. There’s that one commercial
where they have all the photos around the house of the woman
and in every photo like on the piano, she’s just like… (LAUGHTER) But has– have you felt like,
“Oh, now, I do less as a–” Like, have you felt that at all? Well, I– I beat myself up
for so long because I felt that I’d wasted
my potential and my gifts because I was sleeping
so much and unable to face my life and for two and half years,
I wrote five minutes. H– Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I sleep a lot due to, uh… Yeah, Seroquel, but uh… I– I still feel that, like,
“Aw, I wish I could do more,” but then tell myself, uh,
when I did do more, it was just getting more
amped up, you know,
I tried to kill myself. So, it’s like, uh… (GRUNTS) (LAUGHTER) Maybe I’ll just get a few
less things done. Well, you know,
the last conversation, the last session I had
with my therapist. This guy’s amazing. And he was like, “We’re gonna
start working on you–” ‘Cause I realized I overschedule
stuff ’cause I– it makes me feel like
I’m wanted. -Right.
-Oh, I gotta go do this podcast. I’m gonna do this TV show.
I’m gonna go to this meeting. I’m gonna pitch– I’ll do–
I’ll take meetings on things I know I don’t wanna
write, I know I don’t want to actually put my energy– But I just want to know somebody
is waiting to see me sometimes. And then, it’ll catch up to me,
like yesterday, I had just gotten off of,
you know, traveling, and doing the special,
and then going back to my– There was just like constant
travel and hassle back and forth and then yesterday, I took
my daughter to school and I came home at eight o’clock and I slept
till like four o’clock. My– It was almost like my body
took over. Something else went, “You’re
gonna go lie down right now. Like, lie the hell down.” So, I still have problems
with that. I still have– I don’t even
know if it’s– it’s not manic depression because I don’t really have
the depression anymore. It’s like manic, then shut down
for a day, and then get back. And when you’re doing
nine different things at once, you never really complete
anything. You’re just always busy. And there’s that fear of like… getting back to you,
what if I commit to one thing and then it sucks? But if I’m committed
to nine different things and I can’t get
these things done, but I’m trying my best,
then I’m safe. I’m fucking safe. -You know, that’s when–
-But then you realize you just committed to do
the sequel toPluto Nash.-Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
-(LAUGHTER) -Would not be surprised
if I said yes to that.
-I said yes to that meeting. And show business itself
is kinda like a– an alcoholic, like call– You know, it’s just sorta like,
“I love you. You’re the best.” -(LAUGHTER)
-And then,
it’s like “Go to hell!” (LAUGHTER) Yes. -Oh my god.
-Do you feel ultimately
that your show business career has been this positive force or do you think it just…
taps into the negative? No, no, no, no. It’s been very–
I mean, it’s been– I mean, I think
like all of life, it’s been very positive
and then also has some… negative– But I think stand-up
especially is a great thing -for somebody
with mental health issues.
-Yes. ‘Cause the–
Comedians – super sensitive. I mean, some
of the biggest, uh, petunias on the planet, uh, and… yeah, talk about everything
openly and uh– Yeah, and the hours.
You cannot beat the hours. (LAUGHTER) You mean the hour. -(LAUGHTER)
-It’s the best. Really is. Are there things you guys do
like every day to like stabilize? Like… -I know, like, if I exercise…
-GULMAN: Yes. …the day is different. If I meditate,
the day is different. Like what are– what are
your routines? I have like 20 of them,
but one of the things is to exercise every day. And then, the other thing
you were talking about, overscheduling yourself, I was not seeing anybody
for weeks at a time, so I started accepting
any invitation -to go anywhere, do anything…
-Yep. …including just people
from the audience after a show that I’d meet. They’d say, “Hey, you want
to have lunch with us?” -Yes. Yes.
-(LAUGHTER) It will get me out of the hotel which is
the most depressing place. It’s dark, it’s lonely,
and it’s uncomfortable, yeah. I do that with people
off Twitter, -which is I ask–
-GULMAN: Yes. I can’t get myself– I can’t get myself to rehearse
anymore because I already know what’s
at the end of the rainbow. You’re just trying to get on
an episode ofDateline.-No.
-(LAUGHTER) I mean, my God. What the fuck
are you thinking? -No! They’re lovely.
-OSWALT: Okay. I’ve met I think at least
50 people, and met them for coffee
or lunch, and just get together– ’cause
I have to rehearse for shows because I’m very theatrical. So, I’ll rehearse for an hour.
I’ll buy them lunch -and then we’ll get chit chat.
-Oh, that’s fantastic. Usually, they have
a mental health issue, -high fives all around and, uh–
-(LAUGHTER) It’s– it’s perfect. Yeah, but hotels by yourself,
although it’s a quality problem -to be in a lovely Hampton Inn.
-(LAUGHTER) You’re running your act for
strangers you entice on Twitter. Yes. Yeah. I mean,
obviously, I check their feed. Uh… Uh…
I’ve had only positive, only very positive,
lovely people who are just as shy as I am,
and kinda, you know, just, uh– have a–
are self employed half the time and– APATOW:
So is this like at a restaurant? Where are you when you’re
running your full act? Anywhere. It’s always close. I’m very much about geography.
I gotta make it very easy -for me.
-And it’s at a public place,
right? -Oh God, yes. A public place.
-Okay. Great. Please. Please. Oh my God. No, no, no. Yeah, I don’t tell anybody else
where we’re going except my– I tell my husband
who’s here tonight. He’s been a witness
to some of them. He’s like… (STAMMERS) They seem okay. (LAUGHTER) No, everyone’s
usually pretty lovely. That is the beautiful thing
about the internet is the majority of it
is pleasant, -perfectly lovely people.
-Yes, yes. Perfectly lovely,
but they must be just in awe -and so excited
because they’re fans.
-Oh, no! -I think people see a lot–
-And it’s free. Yeah, it’s free and that’s
my favorite thing is to provide something free. Uh, ’cause I love free things. -Free clinics
-Leno used to do it
but he charged. -(CHUCKLING)
-Oh, G– Leno, that guy. -Well’s that why–
-(LAUGHTER) That’s where he got where he is. How else are you not gonna touch
yourTonight Showmoney? We were talking about how,
when you do stand-up, or certain types of writing,
what I like about it is that, uh, the worst thing
that ever happens, you’re so happy
that it happened. I re– I threw the first ball
out at a Mets game, and I was like, “Well,
if it goes great,
I’m gonna feel great, and if it’s a total humiliation
I’ll get four minutes
out of it.” -Yeah.
-And I feel like, if your whole life you’re
running through that filter… -Right.
-In a weird way, you’re excited for all
the bad stuff. -Yeah. Right.
-Well, there’s vengeance,
and redemption, -from these things.
-Yeah. Yeah. So that–
that’s a positive thing
with– with comedy. Well, there’s also connection.
After a while, it’s really hard. You– I’ve always said,
you can tell when a comedian
is young, because his or her act
is all about, “Let me tell you about
this other stupid thing, and this other thing
where I got the better
of this idiot!” And then as they get older,
your act becomes, -“Listen to this stupid
fucking thing I did.”
-(LAUGHTER) -It’s true!
-Because you get humility -and– and confidence
and wisdom…
-Yes. …to go, “Oh, that’s a way
better way to connect
with audiences, rather than go out and go,
“Let me tell you guys
how it is.” -Wow.
-Like– you know, like– And– But that’s the insecurity
of being young. Yeah. Tell me about the worst
therapist you’ve ever had. I– I see two right now. Uh, I have, uh,
a kind of a mindfulness Buddha type guy, Wednesday… Mm-hm. Oh, this isn’t
the same time? It’s not like a Thunderdome
kind of thing? -No, no.
-Okay. -(LAUGHTER)
-That’d be awesome! “Both of you, go.
All right.” “Never got love from my dad.” “Let’s go at it guys.
Come on.” On the weekend, I have
more of a power-Hollywood guy. Like, at the end of the session,
like, his phone rings, like he’s gonna do a session
on the phone, and then, so it’s like, uh,
instead of it ringing, his ring is it says the name
of the next person. So, it’s like in the middle
of the sessions you just
hear like, “Sylvester Stallone!
Sylvester Stallone! Sylvester–” Not that it was that.
I’ve created a fake name. -(LAUGHTER)
-It’s privacy laws. He’s not in therapy, clearly.
Um… But– And then, uh…
This therapist just talks, uh, for 57 minutes straight. -Wow.
-OSWALT: He talks to you? Like, I say one thing and then
he like talks for 57… He talks the entire time.
I think he’s hypnotizing me. -It’s like a dad.
-Yeah. I had a therapist once
that made me lay on a table and he touched me a little bit. Like, there was a lot
of breathing and… -Energy stuff?
-…and energy work. Uh, breath work.
Have you guys done breath work? But who– who–
who was your worst therapist? That was not helpful? I’ve never– (CLEARS THROAT)
I’ve never had a bad therapist, but I did have a therapist
that really… It– It was– I–
He was actually really good, and he combined both eastern
and western medicines, so there was some meditation
and there was, you know, like, um, uh, acupuncture
and stuff like that. And then he fucking moved
to Pacific Palisades and I was living in Los Feliz
and I had to– and I went to see him
a couple of times but it was three and a half
hours out of my day to go see him, and then I got
to the point where I was like, -“My biggest problem in my life
is driving out to see you.”
-(LAUGHTER) “If I could find someone
close to me, that would solve
a lot of my stress.” -(LAUGHTER)
-And to his credit, he was like, “I can totally
see what you’re saying,” and he helped me find someone
closer, and now, I have– the therapist
that I see now, I don’t see him, ’cause he also moved way west,
and we just do phone sessions
and it’s fucking great, because I– there’s a room
in my house like that–
that’s very dark, and I just lie there,
and almost feel like I’m
totally disconnected from this, and it’s just my mind
and emotions dealing with him, and he’s fucking great. Why don’t you switch back
to the first guy? First guy, there was more, um, uh, audio-visual aids
that he would use, and the acupuncture and like,
it was more of a– it– it wasn’t just
talk therapy, and another reason that, um,
I stuck with the second guy is because, uh, he said
one of the smartest things
I’ve ever heard. Um, he didn’t even say it to me. My– My first wife,
when we had our child, she went through the worst
postpartum I’ve ever seen, and he– well, he said
two great things to her: one, he said, “I–
If I was like the president
of medicine or whatever, and could, you know,
dictate things, the phrase, ‘If you
experience postpartum depre–‘ I would get rid of the ‘if’.”
Everyone experiences it, and using that ‘if’
makes women like… It took my wife a long time
to go seek help because she– she felt,
“I’m weak. I’m less than…” You know?
Whereas she should have gone, “Everyone does this,
let’s deal with it.” And then he started her
on an antidepressant and, um, she went back
the next week and she was like, “Look,
I know this stuff doesn’t work. for like six weeks
but I’m already feeling better because I’m taking it,
and I feel aware. I know this is like
a placebo effect, so, you know, I’m f–”
And then he goes, “You want my honest opinion?”
She said yeah, he goes, “Who gives a shit?
It’s– It works.” Why are you questioning it
working? Let it work.
Like, be happy.” So that attitude, I loved,
and I was like, “I wanna go talk to him,”
and he’s been amazing. But you had visual aids. I had a guy once who gave me a–
a doll of a small child– I had a guy that gave me a doll!
Yeah, the inner-child thing. Yeah, and I had to talk
to the doll, the doll’s name was like
Little Buddy. (LAUGHTER) And he was like,
“Talk to Little Buddy.” And suddenly, I’m like doing
a ventriloquism routine. (LAUGHTER) And you get very self-conscious when you’re suddenly
working the puppet. Come on, Little Buddy, I just
wanna have a nice time here, and work on my– (AS LITTLE BUDDY)
“Fuck you, asshole!” (NORMAL) Oh, now, Buddy! Come on! I’m trying to work through
some trauma. (AS LITTLE BUDDY) “I’m trying
to work through some boredom.” (NORMAL) Oh, Buddy! No. Like, what if you really
started killing with the act? Like, you really got into
the character too much. (LAUGHTER) We just wanna have a nice
session with the nice doctor! (AS LITTLE BUDDY) “Fuck him!”
(NORMAL) Oh! I’m sorry. He’s… (LAUGHTER) But Gary talks about
the experience of being… in a– in a–
What would you call it? -A facility?
-Yes, yes. A psyche ward. I always called it
the psyche ward. As a very positive thing
that helped you. Yes. And how did you feel about it
also? Yeah, I think– totally.
It’s just a normal hospital. Uh, you know, I felt horrible, so it wasn’t– but it was just
a normal hospital. I gotta say, there isn’t as much
funding for mental health, so it’s as if a Hollywood
set director came in and said, “Okay, let’s stack
theNew Yorkersall tipping this way but they’ve gotta be
20 years old. The puzzle, let’s take out
nine of the pieces. -Let it be all sky. All sky.”
-Yes! Infuriating! (LAUGHTER) “And then let’s put the TV
on highest volume. Lose the remote.” (LAUGHTER) Like, it’s just… yeah. It’s like a setup
to have a bummer. ‘Cause you go to
the breast cancer ward and it’s like,
“Oh my God, you’re here!” (LAUGHTER) I’m sure it’s not like that
but I’ve been to it. Yeah. Anyways. It’s– It’s less shaming.
It feels less shaming. That was one of
my favorite jokes you did, was about the people at work
who… You say you have depression
and they say, “We’re all depressed,”
but you made it, “Yeah, we all have cancer.” You would never say that. Yes. You don’t think I have cancer
every morning? (LAUGHTER) Oh. Did that ever
make me feel empowered? Because yeah,
that’s the problem. You don’t get as much respect
for being depressed, because it has– it’s a–
it’s a… (SIGHS)
It’s a shortsighted language where the word for
“not wanting to live anymore” is the same as,
“Well, the Mets lost,” or the– Yeah. You feel the same way. It’s like William Styron-type
depression. Like, “Darkness visible,”
and then there’s like, “Mm, I just don’t feel good
today.” (LAUGHTER) “My pants are kinda weird.” (LAUGHTER) What is the relationship like
with people who come to see you when you talk
about these issues? What is that experience like,
and what do you think people get from you talking about
difficult issues on stage? I– I think the people
are so… relieved, I think, that somebody else
is experiencing this, and that they’re not alone. And the conversations
I have in the meet-and-greets, since I started talking
about this have been so deep, and– and, but– but… I don’t know.
Maybe I’ll get tired of it. But it still makes me feel
so good that people are connecting
with me on a level that they weren’t
connecting on with my abbreviating
the states, which was terrific but… it’s just… it’s not the same
as opening up about electro-convulsive therapy
and… and– APATOW: What do you want them
to take from it? I want them to take hope
that– that– Because
two and a half years ago, I guess it was October of 2017
that I started to feel better, but prior to that, I– I… (SIGHS) I was… frequently googling
“painless suicides” and Siri always tells you
what phone number to… -Right.
-Yeah. Yeah, Siri is so thoughtful. It will tell you
the Suicide Prevention Hotline instead of giving you
these painless suicides, and there really aren’t any,
by the way. And– And now, I can’t wait
to do more shows, and I just, I’m so grateful
I stuck around for this. -(APPLAUSE)
-(CHEERS) And thank you guys
for coming out. Thank you so much. October 5th,The Great Depresh.Gary Gulman, Maria Bamford,
Patton Oswalt. Andy Frasco & the U.N. Thank you guys for coming out!

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