Causes, Medications, and Therapies
Jeffrey Epstein brought me here
Much Thanks and Appreciation goes out to both Peterson and Pinker! God Bless them both and us for having heard their valuable words!
5 mins in but i cant help but wonder if Epstein comes up…
53:00 And there was endless warfare before. Your point?
[Sarcasm filter on]
Thank you very much Professor Pinker, I couldn't agree more the state of the world is in top notch condition. The economy is doing well, people are being lifted out of poverty … I mean today in 1927, what could possibly go wrong? Look we have steady track record of growth over the past few years … don't you worry about these few disgruntled men in Germany, it's just a small disenfranchised minority …
[Sarcasm filter off]
Big fan of Dr Peterson. I have purchased both of his books and have attended his lectures. Please stop associating yourself with scam artist only looking to use your name for credibility. Patrick Bet David is scam artist and a pathological liar. He heads PHP Angency which is a large MLM Pyramid scheme of a company which has ruined many lives.
Pinker at 36:20 “Nothing in the Declaration [of Independence] said anything about being… Christian”
And 41:00: “It certainly ‘[the Enlightenment] did not depend on belief of Jesus Christ as our Saviour, it did not depend on one God as opposed to many Gods, it really depended on human well being – life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness – that something you can believe in regardless of your theological beliefs ”
From the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
And 43:15: “It’s not clear that the self evident right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is particularly Judeo Christian… the idea of universal human worth and well being is not a particularly Jewish notion, I don’t think it’s a particularly Christian notion”
And 47:20: “I don’t think it’s very easy to come up with a notion of universal human rights from either scripture or Christianity”
Galatians 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
I just love the Bach Jordan. Seriously! Say G’day to Tammy from me.
I love how lucidly and passionately Dr. Peterson speaks when it's about these crazy huge concepts like liberty or metaphysics or psychology and then just comes across like a sweet older gentleman when it's time to setting up or signing off of livestreams xD firebrand intellectual powerhouse one moment, mildly awkward uncle the next x'D
Really keen for that discussion between Peterson, Pinker & Sapeiro on religion and the enlightenment. I thought the way Ben Sapeiro was treated by the Andrew Neil & the BBC several weeks back was really disgusting as well as infuriating.
I have found Petersons only vice: He is a lousy interviewer…
Now I know why I'm going bald… Brains grow hair.
The left hates hearing that the world is getting better for two reasons: capitalism has been the driving reason, and it exposes their personal failure as their responsibility and no one else’s.
socialist minions are pissed they can't tear down civilization.
See the Israelites were "chosen people" simply due to having the knowledge of the true God via companionship of the Law and the word spoken to their prophets. In Amos, this sort of relationship was MISUSED, the misuse of this relationship was apparent time and time again through their history. They continued to do what was evil, with the patriarchs as a type of the sign of Christ that would come, but the point remains that they were the ones who got the most scathing messages from a higher being.
The Christ is a sign of the ressurection of the dead, this is proof that God loves life so much, and finds them so valuable, that he raised us even from death. Christ is the Savior of all and the first historical sign of the promise of the ressurection. It's important to draw precept from not only TaNaK but from the whole of the scriptures, if you are inclined to ween from the truth within them. Grace to you.
Fascinating discussion between two of the most intelligent humans alive today.
I'm constantly surprised that when people who are associated with the "IDW" try to discuss what it is, or what attributes its members have in common, they never explicitly mention the one attribute that to me is its most important: all of them seem to accept that just because someone may disagree with them on one or more ideological or philosophical positions that doesn't mean that they are bad people. i.e., they accept to their core the idea that decent, rational people can disagree. Perhaps that's because to them that proposition is self-evident, but it seems to me that the reverse, the notion that if you disagree with me you are a bad person, has become the base assumption of our political discussions.
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Quality microphones.
Hey uh, didn't this guy hang out with Jeffrey Epstein?
Dr. Peterson, lovely conversation but it would make it just so much more pleasant if you did not keep interrupting Dr. Pinker mid-sentence at every other instance. I know you are passionate about the subjects you are touching in these conversations, but still. Take it as a bona fide advice from another passionate debater and all the best to you.
larger population does not help humans. Not being able to separate groups when a plague breaks out endangers all. Greed, air travel distributes disease quickly and we've never seen a shutdown due to disease, only terrorism. Too many of one life form (humans) will create a mass kill off, mother nature will bring back balance.
at 46min:57sec mark. The most heinous regimes of the 20th century were anti-religious or revered themselves as a higher power.
2.Of all the great people in the bible, there were only 3 that went directly to heaven. Humanity is innately flawed but that doesn't mean we can't learn from these stories/abstractions.
3.The divine-meteor-strike on Sodom and Gomorrah(ex of an abstraction) can be an object lesson of how society can regress into negative feedback loops that are inescapable. It is imperative for those that notice the loops forming, to speak out.
[this channel bans timestamps]
at 53min:59sec mark. After the 1700s there were more wars than in the centuries behind it.
It seems that in any time period, war is simply more easily perpetrated when power is heavily consolidated to the top. The reason conflicts seem to be recently declining is because of deterrence. ie: mutually assured destruction
Source: Max Roser, "Global deaths in conflicts, since 1400"
[this channel doesn't allow timestamps. which I would be in favor of considering the lengthy watch times]
Can't understand what Pinker's saying
Dang, Pinker has more titles than Daenerys Targeryen
Has anyone see the "Buy Jordan Peterson Merchandise" virus when you download his videos?
Pinker would be so much better if he didnt insist on Atheism in most of his reasonings.
It's an irrelevant, self-serving stance to say flatly "the universe cares nothing for us" while explaining the entropic nature of being. Why evoke the concept of a "caring universe" when acting as a scientist?
Let's get Ben on the line, how about no.
Dr. Steven, Dr. Peterson and Ben Shapiro in the same room… Make that happens quickly! 🙂
Please open a direct donation link for some decent audio equipment.
the doctrine that all men are born with certain inalienable rights was, a mere two an a half centuries ago, akin to one of the greatest heresies the world had ever heard, but that was the cry of our forefathers as they orchestrated the political revolutions which toppled the despotic old monarchies of Europe, as well as the scientific revolution of thought that would effectively bring down one of the greatest sources of oppression the world had ever known, the Roman Catholic Church. How many times has history told of races, nations or classes of people who have clawed their way up from hundreds of years of bondage into newfound Freedoms, and then, as their duty to “water the tree of freedom with the blood lof old tyrannies” was neglected, they slipped slowly at first and then very quickly back into bondage and oppression for another hundred years.
Today we are seeing a similar dynamic play out as, after the greater freedoms that were born with the introduction of wage based labor, and brought forth with the American, French and Industrial Revolutions… now mankind has been slipping slowly at first but evermore quickly back towards economic enslavement under a fiat currency banking authority and into feudalistic debt based serfdom.
Nonetheless, just as every setback has seen man’s accepted definitions for a working Law of Liberty being perverted into new mandates for tyranny, with each new triumph, the scope, breadth and means of mankind’’s freedom have of a necessity been redefined to counter the perversions and corruptions of those doomed old dictatorships.
Anyway, it's nice to see you trying to move in the right direction on these points.
The Canadian to aspire to used to be Pierre Trudeau. Now it's these guys.
The Enlightenment narrative he presents is one-sided and mostly inaccurate
Great discussion/topic. Best wishes and prayers for your wife, Dr. Peterson.
I like you Jordan but cant you do these discussions with higher quality audio which they deserve??
41:09 – "… It certainly did not depend on belief in Jesus Christ as saviour, it did not depend on One God as opposed to Many Gods, it really depended on human well-being."
The problem with this framing is that we don't know what the term BELIEVE IN means here. When a myth SPEAKS to you, it speaks to the psyche's archetypes. They RESONATE with the images in the myths, and that resonance, the wisdom of that resonance informs and guides our behavior and our ethic from the subconscious. Religious myths and motifs speak to a deeper, pre-cognitive part of the mind that isn't concerned with BELIEVING, it's not a matter of "calculating towards truth". That's the problem with materialists like Pinker and Harris. They think of "belief" as being one-dimensional and something you do with the rational mind. But the mind goes way deeper, and the deeper you go into the mind, the more you will find yourself in an archetypal mythological world of Resonance with what's meaningful – not with what's LOGICAL. The cognitive mind *thinks*, the deeper mind *dreams*.The motif of Christ, the central collective DREAM of Christ, has spoken to the subconscious of western culture since for two millenia, and it is this resonance that has unfolded and given BIRTH to what we call the enlightenment and it's values.
As for belief in "One God over Many Gods" – It's a mistake to think that Zeus or Odin or Dionysius is the same thing as The Absolute.
We need to stop thinking about religions as something we "believe" in but rather try to understand the way they FUNCTION in our psychology.
There are too many comments to read, but I wish I could thank you both personally on the enviroment you enrich without me seeing it.
I’m living in Sweden. I’m 30 and I’ve never seen a homeless person. And NO we are not a socialist country. We just have a little wider social safety net, and sure there are people who abuse the system but you cant just sit at home and collect a check. You have to show that you are actively looking for a job or that you really are unable to work. You have to do a lot of stuff before you get that check. We have a running joke in Sweden that goes something like ”in Sweden you have to work very hard to not have to work”. It works better in Swedish lol.
Dr. Pinker sounds like a Magician to me, well at least the intro…
Iv been subbed for a long time but your videos dont appear in my subscription feed so im smashing that notification bell
Great insights and responses by dr pinker
Steven Pinker is a buddy of Epstein. NOT GOOD
Hmmm…it was revealed that this Pinker guy had also been Epstein's Lolita Express plane.
AKA: jp runs through all his talking points once again as pinker listens
What world are you two living in? Did you conveniently just gloss over all the homeless people and tent cities popping up all over the place? The denial of access to the basic necessities of life? The prison population? The immigrant crisis? Sorry maybe you got to it later in the conversation, but I can only tolerate Jordyn Peterson,s (nails on a chalk board voice) for just so long. pointless interruptions and talking around in circles in some false pretense of trying to understand whats wrong with peoples thinking. Perhaps the problem is with your own thinking and how out of touch you are with the current reality. The media continues to lie about the what, the how, and the who of our current social crisis. There is a moral crisis taking place and a social and economic crisis that you two seem to think is not a problem because it isn't touching you at the moment, and you can sum it up in % which is meaningless to those suffering.
Jordan is better at being interviewed than interviewing.
This whole conversation ignores the right-leaning viewpoint entirely when it isn't insulting it by calling left-wing policies "generous." It's not generous to elect thugs to redistribute other people's money.
why the fuck is this legend Steven Pinker being associated with Jeffrey Epstein?
I love Pinker! Happy to see this!
you should have asked him if he was sad that his pedophile friend "killed himself"
My intuition is that the difference between them is that one explains how circumstances have got better because of a particular period of time and intellectual effort called The Enlightenment which is concluded and conclusive, while the other thinks the improvement in human circumstances is evolutionary and reversible, based in present day individuals personal choices to adopt responsibility or not.
Pinker is missing the whole point of "made in the image of God"
JBP and Ben! The Dream Team once again.
I would love to see more discussion between these two. Really, I love seeing discussions between all of these very bright people. I look forward to Pinker's book and if there is a discussion featuring both Pinker and Shapiro with Jordan, I would be very excited. This is a particularly close to my soul pairing being that once upon a time somewhat recently, I was a very depressed and unfortunate person and Jordan quoted Pinker's notation of the statistics…and there was a click that changed just about everything in my thinking. I'm very appreciative for both of these men and for the fact that we have this sort of thing available to us.
Isn't pinker best friends with Epstein?
To control the masses you must keep them afraid of some thing that will threaten total existence, when I was younger this was "Nuclear Destruction", in a massive world war and this justified movements like C.N.D. who could field enormous demonstrations in the west, but since the implosion of the "Soviet Union", C.N.D. seems to have morphed into the Climate Change hysteria, same people or their children still out on the streets being obnoxious and trying to make everybody to their will.Climate Change is not a settled deal but we are being told by Politicians and the Legacy Media that it is and we have to do various ridiculous things within the next decade or the world will end, no one can deny this or they risk being burned at the stake as a heretic, there is something worryingly wrong here that there seems to be this unanimity of thought across parties and borders, at least here in the west…
Ya can’t talk about success and ignore debt
Dog gone You just have to interrupt Dr. Pinker . It is quite off-putting , Dr. Peterson , to us listeners but surely sir to the person you are talking to . Wouldn't it benefit you Jordan , if you could correct this at least somewhat . I really appreciate you Dr. Peterson so I beg your pardon here . This is important though…
Pinky and his brain
What an uplifting discussion! more of these facts need to be pumped to the public. Imagine what our society could be if we had a balanced diet of positive news well known.
First of all. Another great interview! Alll of Jordan's interviews are just a great conversations that probe fascinating thoughts, ideas, theories and more.Second, at around 37 minutes, they are talking about the artificial group identity making it possible for diversity to work in countries like United States and Canada and how that artificial identity is an antidote to nationalism and racism. Am I the only one who sees that the left is trying to tear down our over arching identity and make smaller more race based identities of old along with sex and sexuality identies primary. And as a result we see a rise in nationalism? Why isn't being American or Canadian and our set of first principles something that binds us any more? Is it solely that what we have as first principles now differs too greatly? Is that the problem with such an artificial identity?
Lastly, I somehow am just now learning about Tammy's cancer. I am hoping that the latest news I've found is an indication of how well she's doing. Hoping and praying she beats it completely.
you guys are telling people the worlds getting better so you can sell books that noone in five years can even read,enjoy chinese rule you pampered people living in your bubbles.Why you are not screaming from the rooftops….We are sick and tired of jeffery epstiens and trudeaus etcetc …..and when the reckoning comes or the zombies I hope your prepared cause ,the mass's will be coming to your house dreamers….
Id like to know what J thinks about this Epstein situation.
39:59 there is no such thing as judeo-christian tradition. Christians are Jews who accepted Christ. Jews are who killed him and stayed Jews to become antichrist Talmudic Jews today.
I would like to watch a Jordan B Peterson and John Vervaeke podcast
It's true that humanity on a global scale has done quite well, but it's been at the expense of the working classes of America and Europe. The median income in the US is $31K, that's insanely low, it's about as much as insurance costs for a family of 4 (average $28K per year). The stats in the US are all bad like that, 25% of kids don't get fed 3 times per day consistently, 80% of households live paycheck to paycheck, suicide rates are so high now that they're literally lowering our expectated lifetimes, and you guys are all acting like liberals are just being ignorant. We're not ignorant, we just aren't cherry picking our data to trick ourselves into thinking that everything is fine. It's not, Trump is clear evidence of that.
Steven Pinker is a massive tool. The guy is stuck in Enlightenment secularism. This is the postmodern era, bitch!
10:28 Taleb actually DID predict the '08 financial crisis, which may in fact have been just a pre-shock of what's to come. I'm not a doomsayer, but I certainly don't see the level of stability in our system that either of these guys seem to. There's far too much artificial manipulation going on.
Why was Pinker's name in Jeffrey Epstein's rolodex? And his book about how things are getting better is propaganda nonsense for white rich people
Breaking news: Steve Pinker on Epstein island flight logs.
Should have asked him about his friend Epstein
Someone needs to tell this guy to get some sun
Love this interview thank you 🙏🏼 But, can we please invest a little in some quality microphones. Your really diminishing the experience with low quality audio. If you want some guidance I am happy to help and even donate some mics to you and your guests. Keep up the good work
Are you friends? That would increase flourishing for us all. Please grant us that
Why I am I paying for the needs of sn alcoholic newfoundlander? Why for the love of God are we an affinity beyond the arbitrary borders of the wealthy?
Should have asked about his meetings with Epstein.
The main theme in the Bible can't be ignored, and that is there is a spiritual or Elohim realm that interacts with humans.
A debate/discussion about human progress and enlightenment vs Judeo-Christian values featuring Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro on one side of the table and Steven Pinker and Sam Harris on the other would be seriously great event!
Jordan When people's incomes go up generally they're able to participate in private property ownership us we see good stewardship of lands in this case
I would love to hear the conversation you mentioned at the end of this video, but please don't limit it to an hour.
The over talking is a bit irritating
You should get active on Goodreads, I think we could benefit a lot to see hat you’re reading!
Well yeah more money will make people happier?? especially if it's based on debt economy and "over-valuation" of currencies…Then why still with all those wealth that people still getting more existentially depressed?? and yes modern people have more money, but have less land as people being squeezed ever more yet to live luxuriously in cities.the humanist claim that materialistic gains can make people's life much better and more prosperous in general sense is indeed the best way of life that one can strife for…. that so you may please yourself with the (you claim) the best of thinkers, the most wealth that you've gain, and political power that you can grasp… that you've achieved with sole human merits.
@JordanPeterson add Ravi Zachirias to that 'Shapiro' conversation or Os Guiness!
Pinker believes that people can decide and agree upon what is good for them and make progress towards that good. Peterson thinks that good must come from some pre-existing time tested tradition or faith or else, people may decide upon a good that isn't good. Both men are correct, but even pre-existing tradition or faith may not lead a people to a good that is good as the current world is changing at an ever increasing rate. That is where Pinker's belief that people should try to understand the world as it currently is and then choose a good suited for it may be the better option going forward.
The idea of human rights coming from Christianity is the fact that as Peterson said, humans were created in the image of God and therefore have intrinsic value, worth and dignity. A person has value for that reason not based on how hard they work or their good outweighing the bad. Pinker went on to point to things like religious people and supposed Christians burning heretics as an example of Christianity not being the source or the best argument for innate value and worth of humans. However, he is pointing to perversions coming from flawed sinful human beings and this doesn't discredit that humans still have value and worth from God.
Say the world is getting better to anyone working in healthcare in the US
Growth and reversing natural degradation. Sounds good. How? Growth in the way we grow now does not satisfy that premiss
Peterson should have a formal debate with Pinker on the source of Western values. They both have a point even though they are somewhat at odds so it will be enlightening.
Pinkers clarity of mind and power of speech is very impressive. Peterson obviously calls for Shapiro as a reinforcement as he cannot counter Pinkers crystal clear arguments against the Judeo-Christian is the source of humanity-Argument.
Spreading and acceptance of an understanding to increasing number of people, that progress i.e more political stability, building better infrastructure and achieving more wealth and prosperity, etc. cannot be achieved if at least certain value is attached to every individual of society, perhaps led to increasingly humane world we inhabit now.
This is the second time that I have had to subscribe to this channel. I never unsubscribed in the first place. Don't know what the hell is up with that?
What were you doing on Epstein's plane Dr. Pinker?
Spookie lookn sheenie- like most of em
It is usually the least educated who can measure true changes best. For instance, fishermen know the actual deal with "climate change" and social workers in the community know about true poverty. With the opiod crisis and how Obamacare shifted the way healthcare is delivered, it seems that the "data" Pinker discusses is itself flawed and collected at a different standard than those in the past he must be using to make these grand claims. Things are getting much worse, not better.
Dr Peterson, can you please enable the download feature? I would love to watch your videos offline when no internet network is available, thank you.
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