Ash: Hi, Everybody! Chandler: Hello! Ash: That was so good, you had so much energy! Ash: You turned on your YouTube voice. [Music] Ash: First of all, why don’t you introduce yourself to my audience a little bit. Like, how do you identify, what are your pronouns, and etc. Chandler: Hello there! My name is Chandler, and I am agender and my pronouns are they/them. Chandler: And me being agender means that I do not HAVE a gender. Chandler: So…I just don’t feel it. It’s not there. Ash: And you recently started T, right? Chandler: Mmhm. I started testoserone, mmm… March 23rd. Ash: March 23rd? Isn’t it April 23rd? Chandler: IS it April 23rd? Is today my one-month? Ash: I think today might exactly be… Chandler: Today is my one-month on T! Ash: I kinda wanted to talk a little bit about Ash: being non-binary and going on T. Ash: Because I only recently discovered Ash: that there were non-binary people in the world Ash: who went on testosterone. Chandler: Really? Ash: Yeah, kind of.
Ash: Can you just explain to the world Ash: how T is not ONLY for trans-masculine people, or trans guys. Chandler: I went back and forth for MANY years Chandler: on if I wanted to start testosterone or not. Chandler: because I had this weird guilt in my mind Chandler: where I was where I was like, Chandler: Well, I’m not allowed to take testosterone Chandler: if I’m not this, this, this, and this. Chandler: I felt like there was a checklist that I had to cross off Chandler: in order to qualify to take testosterone. Chandler: I felt like it would enrage people Chandler: if I started taking testosterone Chandler: and didn’t actually identify as a male. Chandler: And I knew that testosterone wasn’t something that Chandler: I wanted to take for the rest of my life Chandler: There are two different things that a lot of Chandler: non-binary people on testosterone will do. Chandler: Either, they will take it for a short amount of time Chandler: at a regular dosage, which is what I plan to do, Chandler: Or, they will take it at a lower dosage for a more constant amount of time. Chandler: And so I might change my mind and do that. Ash: Are you just feeling it out? Chandler: Yeah. Ash: Ok. Chandler: For right now, it’s kind of like Chandler: I know that I”m gonna probably do it Chandler: for at least about a year. Chandler: Because what I really, really hope to achieve taking testosterone– Ash: That was gonna be one of my next questions.
Chandler: What? Ash: What do you- what are your goals? Chandler: So really I just want a little bit more masculine appearance in a lot of different ways. Chandler: And a deeper voice was a very, very big thing for me, Chandler: because usually people, in public, either read me as a girl Chandler: right away, or they read me as a young boy. Chandler: And so, I was in positions where it was obvious Chandler: that I was older, which pushed people to believe Chandler: that I was a girl. For example, at my job, Chandler: if people see me working, obviously they’re not gonna think I’m twelve. Chandler: And so there was this idea in their head that Chandler: “Oh, this person is at least eighteen.” Chandler: And then, seeing how they saw me, they immediately Chandler: thought, “Oh, well, this is a girl. This isn’t a pre-pubescent AMAB person.” Ash: So you were either, in society’s eyes, read as a woman or a little boy? Is that kind of what you were saying? Chandler: Yeah. And then also since I’ve been dating Xander… Chandler: When I was dating more feminine people before, people were, you know, heteronormativity, Chandler: were reading it as a guy and girl in the relationship, and since I was the less feminine person in the relationship Chandler: they would immediately go, “Ok, well then that’s a boy.” Chandler: And since I’m dating someone that’s more masculine than me in physical appearance, Chandler: heteronormativity immediately goes, “Ok, so then that one’s a girl.” Ash: Yeah. Chandler: And so, that was also frustrating, and got to me a bit. Chandler: So, kind of like, my goal is just to feel more androgynous physically. Chandler: There were other things that I kind of really wanted to help make me feel more “in the middle” so to speak Chandler: when it comes to feminine attributes and masculine attributes, I wanted to feel like I had a little bit of both Chandler: that balanced each other out more, because I feel kinda like I have feminine attributes Chandler: and I have masculine attributes, but they don’t balance each other out every time. Ash: Sure. Chandler: At the same time, I feel having more of both of them helps me feel more of neither of them. Chandler: If that helps
Ash: That– yeah! Chandler: That kind of explains it. Ash: That’s kind of like a paradox that makes total sense. Chandler: Yeah! Ash: I get how having both of the gendered things could make you feel none of the gendered things. Chandler: Yeah! It’s weird, but it makes sense in myself. Ash: So you actually kind of touched a little bit on how your social dysphoria and your body dysphoria Ash: have played into the decision to start T. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? Chandler: A really, really big factor as to why I decided to go on testosterone was more gender dysphoria of Chandler: people misgendering me and not so much discomfort of my own body as intensely. Chandler: So like, I felt body dysphoria, but I felt gender dysphoria so much more. Chandler: One of the reasons that I decided to go on testosterone was because I feel extremely uncomfortable Chandler: when people read me as my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: and I realized when I was younger, that when people read me as a different gender Chandler: that it made me feel SUPER awesome, Chandler: but that it wasn’t because I identified with that gender, Chandler: it was because I didn’t identify with my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: and that’s how I realized – oh – that I’m something else. Chandler: Like, my gender identity is something else Chandler: I’m not that different gender that people are reading me as, Chandler: but it still felt more comfortable to be read as that than my gender assigned at birth. Chandler: And so, I felt like I needed to… you know…
ensure my mental health, Chandler: because I was not felling okay with people constantly, constantly, constantly Chandler: “Ma’am”, “she/ her”, um -“that girl”, and all those things Chandler: and it made me feel uncomfortable to be read as my gender assigned at birth Chandler: and… have not a single moment when people weren’t reading me as that. Chandler: Like, how I was making the comment earlier that at work, people were immediately reading me as Chandler: an older person and so, older person with high-pitched voice, they immediately equated to a girl. Chandler: And so they were immediately reading me as a girl, Chandler: and there was no question, there was no option. Chandler: I think there was one time somebody read me as a boy, Chandler: and that’s it, and it made me feel really, really bad that there was no opportunity that people were reading me as a different gender Chandler: Than the one i was assigned at birth. Chandler: And so, Chandler: I always equated to sweaters how my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: Feels like a really itchy, uncomfortable sweater that doesn’t feel right, And… Chandler: That being called by a different gender, feels like… Chandler: Still a wrong sweater, Ash: less itchy though. Chandler: Yeah, less itchy, hah, maybe its too big for me or whatever Chandler: as a sweater, its like not quite right Chandler: But it still doesn’t feel horrible. Chandler: I’m a realist and i know that our society is very binary oriented Chandler: I mean the end goal is obviously that I don’t want people to gender me as she or he Chandler: And I would like people to use my pronouns, they/them Chandler: But like, I knew that in a very binary oriented society Chandler: That I wanted to be read as the other binary gender Chandler: Becuase I am Chandler: so uncomfortable and tired of being read as the gender assigned at birth Chandler: And I’ve come to the conclusion very very quickly Chandler: That even if I’d been assigned male at birth, that I would have had the exact same moment Ash: Right
Chandler: That if I were assigned male at birth Chandler: That I would have reached this point in my life, and I would have been like Chandler: Look, I’m tired of having this Ash: If you had been assigned male at birth and were constantly being read as male
Chandler: Yeah, as male Chandler: And I would be, I would be Chandler: In this exact same situation, being like, I want to start Oestrogen Ash: Right
Chandler: It’s like, I want to get a more Chandler: In between physical feeling Chandler: So it’s more of like, I Chandler: I know it’s going to be later down the line that people finally start using they/them pronouns more
Ash: Sure Chandler: In society, and I was just, I was like, I need more Chandler: of a balance, I need more of both of it, I can’t be read Ash: Always
Chandler: Always as a girl Chandler: Becuase it constantly felt like there was Chandler: No balance Ash: Well cool, I’ve, first of all, have really liked the conversation so far Ash: So I guess like my wrap up question is Ash: If you had to send a message to other non-binary people out there Ash: Who were questioning whether or not T was a good idea for them, what would you say Chandler: I would say Chandler: That in any situation, if you want to start testosterone, regardless of how you identify Chandler: In terms of like, if you’re non-binary, or for example if you’re a transman Chandler: To really weigh the pros and cons Chandler: Consider everything Chandler: And then don’t let other people hold you back Chandler: Like, regardless of whatever the situation is Chandler: Like, for example, if you’re a non-binary person who wants to go on testosterone Chandler: Don’t let other people hold you back Chandler: If you know that’s something that’s right for you Chandler: And like, on the flip side of that, if you are Chandler: Like I know that Ryan Cassata talks about this a lot Ash: Yeah
Chandler: If you have identified as a trans man Chandler: And you decide that, you know what, I don’t want to go on testosterone, don’t let other people hold you back from that Chandler: Don’t let other people tell you that you have to do this if you’re going to be this Ash: Yeah
Chandler: Or you can’t do this if you’re going to be this Chandler: Don’t let people tell you- Don’t let people police you for what you know would feel most comfortable for you Ash: That was perfect
Chandler: Thanks Ash: Was there anything else I wanted to say? Chandler: We have other videos, there’s another video on my channel you can check out Ash: Absolutely
Chandler: Woah! Links are somewhere Ash: Yeah
Chandler: Like and subscribe, go follow them on twitter Chandler: Let me give you all your social media plugs on your own channel Chandler: Follow them on twitter, follow them on instagram, follow Grace Chandler: Follow all these other people in their lives Ash: My cats might make a twitter
Chandler: Yes Ash: Follow that
Chandler: Follow everything Ash: We talked about Ryan Cassata Both: Follow Ryan Cassata Both: OKAY BYE!