Testosterone? For Non-binary People?

Ash: Hi, Everybody! Chandler: Hello! Ash: That was so good, you had so much energy! Ash: You turned on your YouTube voice. [Music] Ash: First of all, why don’t you introduce yourself to my audience a little bit. Like, how do you identify, what are your pronouns, and etc. Chandler: Hello there! My name is Chandler, and I am agender and my pronouns are they/them. Chandler: And me being agender means that I do not HAVE a gender. Chandler: So…I just don’t feel it. It’s not there. Ash: And you recently started T, right? Chandler: Mmhm. I started testoserone, mmm… March 23rd. Ash: March 23rd? Isn’t it April 23rd? Chandler: IS it April 23rd? Is today my one-month? Ash: I think today might exactly be… Chandler: Today is my one-month on T! Ash: I kinda wanted to talk a little bit about Ash: being non-binary and going on T. Ash: Because I only recently discovered Ash: that there were non-binary people in the world Ash: who went on testosterone. Chandler: Really? Ash: Yeah, kind of.
Chandler: Okay
Ash: Can you just explain to the world Ash: how T is not ONLY for trans-masculine people, or trans guys. Chandler: I went back and forth for MANY years Chandler: on if I wanted to start testosterone or not. Chandler: because I had this weird guilt in my mind Chandler: where I was where I was like, Chandler: Well, I’m not allowed to take testosterone Chandler: if I’m not this, this, this, and this. Chandler: I felt like there was a checklist that I had to cross off Chandler: in order to qualify to take testosterone. Chandler: I felt like it would enrage people Chandler: if I started taking testosterone Chandler: and didn’t actually identify as a male. Chandler: And I knew that testosterone wasn’t something that Chandler: I wanted to take for the rest of my life Chandler: There are two different things that a lot of Chandler: non-binary people on testosterone will do. Chandler: Either, they will take it for a short amount of time Chandler: at a regular dosage, which is what I plan to do, Chandler: Or, they will take it at a lower dosage for a more constant amount of time. Chandler: And so I might change my mind and do that. Ash: Are you just feeling it out? Chandler: Yeah. Ash: Ok. Chandler: For right now, it’s kind of like Chandler: I know that I”m gonna probably do it Chandler: for at least about a year. Chandler: Because what I really, really hope to achieve taking testosterone– Ash: That was gonna be one of my next questions.
Chandler: What? Ash: What do you- what are your goals? Chandler: So really I just want a little bit more masculine appearance in a lot of different ways. Chandler: And a deeper voice was a very, very big thing for me, Chandler: because usually people, in public, either read me as a girl Chandler: right away, or they read me as a young boy. Chandler: And so, I was in positions where it was obvious Chandler: that I was older, which pushed people to believe Chandler: that I was a girl. For example, at my job, Chandler: if people see me working, obviously they’re not gonna think I’m twelve. Chandler: And so there was this idea in their head that Chandler: “Oh, this person is at least eighteen.” Chandler: And then, seeing how they saw me, they immediately Chandler: thought, “Oh, well, this is a girl. This isn’t a pre-pubescent AMAB person.” Ash: So you were either, in society’s eyes, read as a woman or a little boy? Is that kind of what you were saying? Chandler: Yeah. And then also since I’ve been dating Xander… Chandler: When I was dating more feminine people before, people were, you know, heteronormativity, Chandler: were reading it as a guy and girl in the relationship, and since I was the less feminine person in the relationship Chandler: they would immediately go, “Ok, well then that’s a boy.” Chandler: And since I’m dating someone that’s more masculine than me in physical appearance, Chandler: heteronormativity immediately goes, “Ok, so then that one’s a girl.” Ash: Yeah. Chandler: And so, that was also frustrating, and got to me a bit. Chandler: So, kind of like, my goal is just to feel more androgynous physically. Chandler: There were other things that I kind of really wanted to help make me feel more “in the middle” so to speak Chandler: when it comes to feminine attributes and masculine attributes, I wanted to feel like I had a little bit of both Chandler: that balanced each other out more, because I feel kinda like I have feminine attributes Chandler: and I have masculine attributes, but they don’t balance each other out every time. Ash: Sure. Chandler: At the same time, I feel having more of both of them helps me feel more of neither of them. Chandler: If that helps
Ash: That– yeah! Chandler: That kind of explains it. Ash: That’s kind of like a paradox that makes total sense. Chandler: Yeah! Ash: I get how having both of the gendered things could make you feel none of the gendered things. Chandler: Yeah! It’s weird, but it makes sense in myself. Ash: So you actually kind of touched a little bit on how your social dysphoria and your body dysphoria Ash: have played into the decision to start T. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? Chandler: A really, really big factor as to why I decided to go on testosterone was more gender dysphoria of Chandler: people misgendering me and not so much discomfort of my own body as intensely. Chandler: So like, I felt body dysphoria, but I felt gender dysphoria so much more. Chandler: One of the reasons that I decided to go on testosterone was because I feel extremely uncomfortable Chandler: when people read me as my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: and I realized when I was younger, that when people read me as a different gender Chandler: that it made me feel SUPER awesome, Chandler: but that it wasn’t because I identified with that gender, Chandler: it was because I didn’t identify with my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: and that’s how I realized – oh – that I’m something else. Chandler: Like, my gender identity is something else Chandler: I’m not that different gender that people are reading me as, Chandler: but it still felt more comfortable to be read as that than my gender assigned at birth. Chandler: And so, I felt like I needed to… you know…
ensure my mental health, Chandler: because I was not felling okay with people constantly, constantly, constantly Chandler: “Ma’am”, “she/ her”, um -“that girl”, and all those things Chandler: and it made me feel uncomfortable to be read as my gender assigned at birth Chandler: and… have not a single moment when people weren’t reading me as that. Chandler: Like, how I was making the comment earlier that at work, people were immediately reading me as Chandler: an older person and so, older person with high-pitched voice, they immediately equated to a girl. Chandler: And so they were immediately reading me as a girl, Chandler: and there was no question, there was no option. Chandler: I think there was one time somebody read me as a boy, Chandler: and that’s it, and it made me feel really, really bad that there was no opportunity that people were reading me as a different gender Chandler: Than the one i was assigned at birth. Chandler: And so, Chandler: I always equated to sweaters how my gender assigned at birth, Chandler: Feels like a really itchy, uncomfortable sweater that doesn’t feel right, And… Chandler: That being called by a different gender, feels like… Chandler: Still a wrong sweater, Ash: less itchy though. Chandler: Yeah, less itchy, hah, maybe its too big for me or whatever Chandler: as a sweater, its like not quite right Chandler: But it still doesn’t feel horrible. Chandler: I’m a realist and i know that our society is very binary oriented Chandler: I mean the end goal is obviously that I don’t want people to gender me as she or he Chandler: And I would like people to use my pronouns, they/them Chandler: But like, I knew that in a very binary oriented society Chandler: That I wanted to be read as the other binary gender Chandler: Becuase I am Chandler: so uncomfortable and tired of being read as the gender assigned at birth Chandler: And I’ve come to the conclusion very very quickly Chandler: That even if I’d been assigned male at birth, that I would have had the exact same moment Ash: Right
Chandler: That if I were assigned male at birth Chandler: That I would have reached this point in my life, and I would have been like Chandler: Look, I’m tired of having this Ash: If you had been assigned male at birth and were constantly being read as male
Chandler: Yeah, as male Chandler: And I would be, I would be Chandler: In this exact same situation, being like, I want to start Oestrogen Ash: Right
Chandler: It’s like, I want to get a more Chandler: In between physical feeling Chandler: So it’s more of like, I Chandler: I know it’s going to be later down the line that people finally start using they/them pronouns more
Ash: Sure Chandler: In society, and I was just, I was like, I need more Chandler: of a balance, I need more of both of it, I can’t be read Ash: Always
Chandler: Always as a girl Chandler: Becuase it constantly felt like there was Chandler: No balance Ash: Well cool, I’ve, first of all, have really liked the conversation so far Ash: So I guess like my wrap up question is Ash: If you had to send a message to other non-binary people out there Ash: Who were questioning whether or not T was a good idea for them, what would you say Chandler: I would say Chandler: That in any situation, if you want to start testosterone, regardless of how you identify Chandler: In terms of like, if you’re non-binary, or for example if you’re a transman Chandler: To really weigh the pros and cons Chandler: Consider everything Chandler: And then don’t let other people hold you back Chandler: Like, regardless of whatever the situation is Chandler: Like, for example, if you’re a non-binary person who wants to go on testosterone Chandler: Don’t let other people hold you back Chandler: If you know that’s something that’s right for you Chandler: And like, on the flip side of that, if you are Chandler: Like I know that Ryan Cassata talks about this a lot Ash: Yeah
Chandler: If you have identified as a trans man Chandler: And you decide that, you know what, I don’t want to go on testosterone, don’t let other people hold you back from that Chandler: Don’t let other people tell you that you have to do this if you’re going to be this Ash: Yeah
Chandler: Or you can’t do this if you’re going to be this Chandler: Don’t let people tell you- Don’t let people police you for what you know would feel most comfortable for you Ash: That was perfect
Chandler: Thanks Ash: Was there anything else I wanted to say? Chandler: We have other videos, there’s another video on my channel you can check out Ash: Absolutely
Chandler: Woah! Links are somewhere Ash: Yeah
Chandler: Like and subscribe, go follow them on twitter Chandler: Let me give you all your social media plugs on your own channel Chandler: Follow them on twitter, follow them on instagram, follow Grace Chandler: Follow all these other people in their lives Ash: My cats might make a twitter
Chandler: Yes Ash: Follow that
Chandler: Follow everything Ash: We talked about Ryan Cassata Both: Follow Ryan Cassata Both: OKAY BYE!

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  1. My stepdad always tells me that my curves and my fat and my face shape make me look like a girl…. (I’m ftm… 🙁 )

  2. sorry but no, not every nb person is the same. i am nb and take testosterone on the long term in a regular dose

  3. you know what is frustating? Not knowing wich pronouns to use for a person. I dont think that there is even a "them" in german…

  4. I relate to the being misgendered feeling good when it's not what you were born as. I worked at a summer camp for a few summers, and there was a tradition of playing capture the flag in the dark, boys vs girls, at the end of the summer. A lot of the girls would try to look masculine, but I always pulled it off so well. I've even been misgendered as a boy by a group of 12 year old boys. I'm finding ways to fuse my style into who I am, but I also stopped caring what people think. As a fan of performing, gender is performance, even outside of drag, so that seems to be how I get through dysphoria. I just don't feel the need to transition in any way.

  5. This really clarified a lot of stuff for me ^^ I was worried that if I wanted to go on T I would have to be on it for the rest of my life or the effects would just… Go away? Thank you so much, have a great day and love you lots <3

  6. I totally understand because I just now started identifying as nonbinary because I am unable to find anything else to identify as.

  7. Do you have or can you make a video on how testosterone works, how much it costs, ect. for those who are interested? Also, a little more information on hormone blockers?

  8. Ok I need help understanding what is expected of me as a cis female. Like I'm down with you living your best life and everything so don't take this the wrong way but is the lbgt community trying to make it a social norm to ask for someone's pronouns upon meeting a new peraon. I just find this highly impractical and a fairly invasive question. Yes as a society we assume genders just because that's how we were raised but wouldn't it be better to nicely correct someone if they are wrong. Yes I know that it can cause distress to be misgendered but is it really the other persons fault? Like I used to be very active in the community when I was younger but as I get older I have a hard time putting myself in other people's business. While I completely support your life and your feelings I just don't think the same is rewarded to me as being a cis female doing my best to accept something that I may never understand because it isn't my life.

  9. I’m watching bunch of your videos and I’m getting really butt fucked bc its like I’m looking at a girl and a boy in the same time ands its fucking my brain upppp ffs .. youre still actually so pretty both for men and women

  10. I was on T for a year and then on off for a couple years. I’m not on it anymore. I love watching videos where people feel almost the same as me.
    I thought I had to start T because I don’t identify as specifically female. But I would never get people reading me as a male before T. Now I get people telling me that I look very male and never female. Or I’m told I’m a gay male. I just recently realized that I’m non binary. I’ve been an out trans man for years, so coming to terms that I’m non binary is a crazy journey for me at the moment.

  11. Haha you started T on my birthday. Also very cool to see another nonbinary person on T! I am neutrois & I have been on T for 2 years c:

  12. Okay, I know this is NOT new, but wow this video is awesome!
    It's funny, when Chandler talked about being identified as anything other than their gender assigned at birth, it was kind of like a light clicked on.
    As someone who is genderfluid, the feeling Chandler described was often the case when I hadn't realized I was genderfluid yet. I get really happy when I'm identified as a boy, even though that isn't who I am all the time. I think what it is is being secure in the knowledge that you can pass as someone different from what you were assigned at birth.
    While I'm still in the closet with my family, a few select friends know, and it really helps whenever I feel like I don't "live up to my identity, or I'm "not genderfluid ENOUGH." Seeing that other people have had that problem, or are still dealing with it is AMAZING, because I know that I'm not alone, and that other people have managed to overcome the same difficulties that many people face. Thank you, Ash and Chandler, for discussing this!

  13. I showed this to my mom to help explain my feelings about gender, bc they're basically what Chandler described. I just got a call today saying that my referral went through for my local hormone clinic.

  14. I'm curious, is there a common substitute for ma'am/sir for non-binary people? I use them a lot (yes sir, no ma'am, etc) because I was taught they are a sign of respect (and I will wield them against all people, including the 16 year old cashier), but I also understand that those words aren't correct for those who don't prefer a s/he pronoun. Thanks

  15. I feel the same things!! It's really nice to hear someone who is going through something similar and put everything in words 🙂

  16. I'm NB and I wanted to start t but as that human said I thought I wasn't aloud to because I didn't identify as male but I hate being called a female and that's what I'm always assumed to be so when I was assumed as male I felt better but not good so I do want to start t so I look less feminine but not super masculine so I'm really happy that it's not that weird for NB people to go on t so thank you for making this video

  17. I see… I forgot your name. ''Them'' as both genders. So I guess the "t" is working or I just don't label people.

  18. I feel not valid as non binary because I have long hair I'm young so all of this dysphoria is very bad I want to come out but my mom thinks there are only 2 genders firstly I want to tell her i'm trans but i'm not a boy I don't even have a binder should I wait until she thinks i'm more mature so she doesn't think I'm just going through a phase? (I'm 11)

  19. To me it seems a little paradox, that you dont want to let people tell you what to do, but you want to change your appearance because of what people say about you. Not hating. Somebody please explain.

  20. You two are just so cute 100% support you decisions my children are 4 and 6 and I just k ow that if they came to me one day and said they was in love with another girl or didn’t feel right in their gender I would support them and will always love them no matter what they decide or how they feel they are my children regardless of gender I don’t think a lot of family feel the way I do about excepting how ever my children turn out to be when they grow up but I don’t care about what they think I will always support my children and I would 100% be there to understand them and how they feel

  21. Chandler explained me better than I can explain me. Totally quoting them for when I speak to my therapist for the first time about being non binary. Thank you guys!!!

  22. i literally didnt even consider going on T until about an hour ago, but now after doing lots of research and watching this, and weighing the pros and cons, i def wanna think about doing low doses of T eventually. Luckily, the men in my family dont get much facial hair so maybe shaving wont be so bad lol. im just so excited to one day have a nice, lean, more androgynous body and a less cherub-esque face!

    does anyone know if T would make my nose bigger or more pronounced? i hate how small and babyish my nose is lol

  23. Testosterone is a steroid. Google what that does to body builders. You have only yourself to blame when it puts you in the hospital.

  24. And now look at you both. Chandler with their very in-between appearance, and Ash with their recent top surgery. A lot has changed, and I'm glad that you're both doing what make you happy and being the best you

  25. I do my best to use peoples' pronouns, but my stupid brain still sometimes has trouble automatically using they/them all the time when it reads a person as feminine or masculine. Every time it happens I correct myself, and it's gradually getting better, but the impulse to apologize for every incident is strong. On the other hand, I always use correct pronouns when speaking aloud or conversing with another person, and I don't want to hurt mah enby friends by going and telling them every time my brain has a fart and tries to misgender them. Thoughts?

  26. So, you lied to medical professionals about dysphoria, something you clearly do NOT have, and now you are stealing resources for a year, a year someone with actual dysphoria could have, so you can appear more boyish?

  27. Oh I have the opposite experience as chandler. Since I'm an afab non binary person, and im dating a femme presenting person, when we go out we both get read as femme and people call us "ladies" constantly. Its really interesting to hear these sorts of experiences because i find it so weird. Me and my partner hung out a lot before we started dating and never got "ladies" until we were dating which i find both invalidating and fascinating

  28. I love this video. I am non binary and I completely understand the weird joy of being referred to as a guy, because it’s a magical thing to not be referred to as my birth gender.

  29. I honestly don't think I properly understood or appreciated nonbinary people until I started watching your videos, and I'm saying that as a member of the LGBT community. Thank you for sharing your experiences and educating people, you really are making a difference.

  30. hey, it's me almost a year later! i can comprehend it, cuz guess what? i'm nonbinary transmasculine 🙂 i've been seeing a gender therapist since may, and recently got diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and gender dysphoria. i tried to identify as FTM cuz i just felt like it was the easiest route. (you'd be in the binary, y'know) but it's just not me. if i had to choose… i'd for sure rather be male than female, but the thought of being 100% male just isn't me either. but, it's better than my birth gender. honestly, i'm a person who doesn't like a lot of attention. i keep to myself, so being "nonbinary" isn't some attention thing for me. i still support u 100%. nonbinary ppl are very real and valid. i don't think (from personal experience) that ppl are being "nonbinary" just to stick out or be cool/trendy. i think it's a legit thing, and some ppl don't feel super feminine or super masculine.

  31. It is super hard for me because I’m still with my mom and I have to deal with her saying OH SHE or HER and then she uses the name that I’m not comfortable with and it sucks

  32. i definitely feel that way about the assigned gender at birth and the sweater analogy/metaphor and really put my feelings into words, and as someone with ADHD and problems putting my thoughts into words this video really meant a lot to me and i really loved it.

  33. It was great hearing chandler use your pronoun in such a ‘normal to conversation’ type of way because I’ve never heard it used before, aside from someone saying ‘these are my pronouns’.. haven’t met anyone nb before

  34. If it helps I tend to say they/them more than she/her or he/him before I know someone more.. sometimes I use those pronouns but other times I don't

  35. When Chandler said don't let people police you that reminded me of when I came out to my friend Amber and she said "well now you can't wear dresses (laughs)" I don't want to but the way she said it reminds me how even the nicest people can say some twisted stuff without knowing it

  36. This was a great discussion. Thank you Chandler for your open and honest discussion on your decision to go on T as a non binary human.

    Also thank you Ash for featuring them on your channel. I would love to see more of these types of open and honest discussions with lovely humans.

    Thank you. OK BYE 😝

  37. I’m really glad that this video was made because I now have a better understanding about how people identify as how they feel and I’m happy that this video has soooo many views and that so many people have seen this and I hope they understand too.

  38. Can you get someone in the same situation but being AMAB? That would be really interesting since I feel its a little less common coming from that type of person. Lovely vid!

  39. You don't even know how much confidence this video gave me :D. Thanks, from a very closeted agender// gonna go follow Chandler for sure

  40. I didn’t know agender people (such as myself) went on t. I knew some people binded and got top surgery. It’s cool to see this

  41. I'm agender and I'm still taking e
    I like a feminine body but I don't feel fully feminine I just don't want to feel masculine

  42. Do you have any idea what hormones do some of the changes are permanent you already look androgynous both of you do it will make you sterile you will have growth down there this medicine is for ppl that are trans they identify as the opposite sex as what they are born just be the way you are ppl will either accept you or not once you start taking it the changes start within a month it's serious just accept yourself the way you are

  43. Exactly what I think! AFAB here, when people call me with male pronouns, I will feel happy, though I'm non binary myself lol (When called androgynous pronouns, I will be more happier).

  44. Thank you so much. This has been incredibly helpful to me, and I’ve had a lot of very similar struggles. I want to be a balance, not an extreme. Thank you both for all the videos! It’s really helping me continue to figure myself out, and you’ve helped me get to place where i feel more confident in coming out to my friends and family. <3

  45. Well this was super relatable. I'm feeling a shade more confident about how I've been feeling recently. Thank you, Chandler! And thanks Ash, for having them on your channel. 🙂

  46. Chandler is practically me
    Except instead of having no gender I identify as being both male and female at the same time

  47. See, I have the same feeling/problem, but I live with a homophobic parent and she would never let me start T before I turned 18, but I’m afraid I wouldn’t have the money to do it or the confidence to tell my mom, because I feel like I would need her approval to do it

  48. Chandler: wants to have more both to feel neither
    Me: wants more neither to feel both
    Great video, so calm and informative and positive. ❤️

  49. chandler is very articulate and insightful. i've never really considered this before but it's so interesting and informative. thank you so much for sharing <3

  50. I apologize for asking but, when being respectful to a woman you would say "excuse me ma'am" and to a guy, it would be "excuse me, sir". What would it be for nonbinary or agender?

  51. I was so excited to see on add on your content that I just had to watch all 2 minutes of it. Your welcome from this very impatient human being. Love you and Grace's faces.

  52. I am so comfortable with being me now…. I got told I moght be a really masculine lesbian and my brain was like da fuck nope… I'm me :)… and I love being me

  53. Until you said agender I couldn’t tell which gender you’d be. Immediately thought they/them person. (I know this sounds weird it’s the best way i could come up with) You look very androgynous, though❤️❤️❤️

    Also I’m an AFAB agender kid and my friends think it’s nuts for me to want to go on T. I didn’t think it existed until now…thank you so mich❤️💚💙

  54. Hi i am a nonn binay demiboy individual… and well i had been thinkink for about 2 years now getting on t… but my psychologist just didn't know what does a nonbinary person is so i had been going thro a thought time. BUT NOW that i see that nonbinary people CAN get T without any problem i will see with another psychologist <3 Thanks a lot for making this videos, it really encourage people, like myself <3 you're amazing! Big hug from Mexico

  55. This is almost EXACTLY how I feel
    I started crying bc it felt really good to realize other people understand and feel the way I feel
    Thank you 😊❤🧡💚💚💙💜

  56. Ive just discovered yesterday that you can take low doses of td and nb people do! That was just so amazing and I really needed it!

    I'm young so I have to wait a while to start but its still so exciting. My body is weak so hopefully everything goes ok!

    My mom knows I need a gender theripist so my mom is looking for one i think? But I REEEAAALLLY need one.

    I'm going to talk to my theripist and hopefully they can talk to my mom about getting me a packer!

    The future its cloudy, so it seems dark, but its bright! Im nb (or atleast feel like that now)! And trans masc.

  57. Hi I'm Sam and I'm 14. I'm Transgender (He, him pronouns) and I know I want to be on T. I'm so very happy your doing what makes you happy and comfortable. I love you both so much and don't let anyone get you down!

  58. Woah okay the thing they said about "if i were born amab i would feel the same way" was something i 100% haven't considered abt my gender might think abt that have a lil crisis for a bit! Very useful thank u

  59. Don't let others police you… That message definitely needs to be out there more!
    Unfortunately, in some countries it's the law itself that only knows one specific way of transitioning medically…
    In my country, enbys are not covered at all by trans laws, so I'd have to pretend to be a trans man, which is not easy if you're not a super masculine enby, and you have to take T first if you want to get top surgery. It absolutely sucks, as I decided that I don't want to take T because some of it's effects might complicate my dysphoria, but I'm still considering top surgery, but I can basically give up on that.
    Trans rights are important, as well as social acceptance of Trans and non-binary people.

    Trans rights are human rights.

  60. at one of the camps I would go to during summer one of the first things counselors would say is what pronouns they would use and it felt very inclusive for people who do not identify with what they were assigned at birth

  61. Ash and Chandler— I watch this video over and over because it really affirms me and makes me feel really validated. Thank you.

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